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  1.  
    Originally Posted by JRoth15 View Post

    It's not an excuse...the Cardinals put their best offer on the table, and the Angels offered more years and more money. Seems pretty normal, doesn't it?

    The Cardinals wouldn't be able to sign Wainwright or Molina in the next few years b/c their payroll would be WAY higher than it ever has been. They might struggle even when Freese and Craig are eligible for arbitration down the road.

    It's not a terrible argument...it actually makes sense. This was talked about a LOOOOOONG time ago when the Cards failed to get a deal done last spring training. There are LOTS of other components to think about...not just the $$ to Pujols.

    I never thought it was very realistic for them to be able to afford Holliday's contract and resign Pujols when the time came.. I assumed that they would anyway and then the rest of the team would just be terrible for like a 4-5 year stretch. Maybe they will be better off this way.
  2.  
    Originally Posted by RJA87 View Post

    I never thought it was very realistic for them to be able to afford Holliday's contract and resign Pujols when the time came.. I assumed that they would anyway and then the rest of the team would just be terrible for like a 4-5 year stretch. Maybe they will be better off this way.

    That's all I'm hoping for...I don't think it makes it an excuse.

    Funny pic from a dude I follow on Twitter...he's always joking around, so take it easy:



    With caption that said "I had to update my bobblehead. For sale: $250mil."
  3.  
    Originally Posted by JRoth15 View Post

    lol i'm not mad at all

     2
  4. Rip
  5.  
    Originally Posted by warden View Post

    I'm seriously not mad...if there's any sane fan that can realize it's a business, they can relate.

    The Cards put their best offer on the table, and it wasn't good enough. How am I going to blame a guy for getting $40+ milly more?

    The Cards have very solid pieces in place to be competitive in a winnable division...would I like to have Pujols on my favorite team for the next 4-5 years?? Obviously yes...but I honestly think he is going to keep declining year-by-year--which means bad news for whoever would have signed him to a 10-year deal.

    Can they replace him? No...but they will shift Berkman to first and give Allen Craig the shot he deserves to play every day in the OF now. They have money to plug holes in the bullpen...they'll snag another outfielder...and they might even be in the market to move Westbrook or Lohse to get another starter at some point (altho Boras really fucked the Cards with Lohse's deal--$13M and full no trade clause for a 5th starter).

    I mean...it might seem like the end of the world to some people, but it's not at all. The Cards are a very well ran franchise and will be just fine.
  6. I'm with JRoth. I'm upset that he is gone but it makes sense for the Cards and Pujols to do what they did. I was hoping Pujols would take another discount and be a Cardinals all-time legend (still way up there) but it didn't happen. I enjoyed watching him play and win 2 WS in his 10 years as a Cardinal.

    Some teams have unlimited money, the Cardinals do not. The team is really well run. They still have a good team next year coming back and finally have a really good farm system. Hopefully they make a few moves to get another decent hitter.

    Still a sad day for all Cardinal fans.
     
  7. Just another reason why you don't build a statue for a player until they retire...
     3
  8.  
    Originally Posted by winwin07 View Post

    LOL fans shouldn't care about the financial side of things.

    Anyway, I'm not even bitter. Yes I didn't expect things to go down like that but I also didn't expect the Cardinals FO to shell out that much money so when the Angels offered that who can blame Bert?

    GL Albert. Its been real.

    I disagree. Despite having a gf who has box season tickets for the angels, I think fans have every right to be mad about the money spent. Yes I am excited as fuck to watch them play every day and watch one of the greatest to hit a baseball play, but at the same time it's sick to watch baseball become what I hate so much, Top heavy. Sure there will be a few years where small teams will make a run, but eventually all the good players end up in the big markets. The reason I love football so much is because everyone has a shot every year and good players even have a reason to go to shit places like Green Bay. Even in my own sport, it's always Manchester United, Chelsea, Barca etc until some rich dude comes and drops a fuck load of moeny to add another team to the mix like Man city. I really wish all sports had a cap, but I understand the right to spend money.
  9. Lets talk about whats really important.

    The Pirates signed Nate McClouth. Woooo.
     
  10. The thing I find most shocking is that I've been a Cardinal fan forever, watched them win 3 World Series Rings, enjoyed watching Albert turn into one of the greatest hitters the game has ever seen, and yet upon hearing the news I was completely over the sadness and depression of it all in about 3.5 seconds. Bring on 2012, and we'll find another way to defy the odds and go deep.
  11.  
    Originally Posted by darkpoker12 View Post

    I disagree. Despite having a gf who has box season tickets for the angels, I think fans have every right to be mad about the money spent. Yes I am excited as fuck to watch them play every day and watch one of the greatest to hit a baseball play, but at the same time it's sick to watch baseball become what I hate so much, Top heavy. Sure there will be a few years where small teams will make a run, but eventually all the good players end up in the big markets. The reason I love football so much is because everyone has a shot every year and good players even have a reason to go to shit places like Green Bay. Even in my own sport, it's always Manchester United, Chelsea, Barca etc until some rich dude comes and drops a fuck load of moeny to add another team to the mix like Man city. I really wish all sports had a cap, but I understand the right to spend money.

    Wat? There is more parity in baseball than there is in football.
     
  12. We got our two championships.
    Makes more since for him to go to the AL anyways.
    good luck Albert.
  13. Oof, that AL West is becoming a beast. Same with the NL East. Glad my team is in the AL Central :)
  14. Pretty interesting article with a timeline about the Pujols signing.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...=1s5fbz0rj4jqq
     
  15.  
    Originally Posted by RJA87 View Post

    I know why he did it, but it's very stupid. This is the only time he can get a contract like this. So instead of just getting another $18m or whatever that 6th year, he'll be a free agent and get some deal that pays him like 9 because he'll be old.

    If the equation was only about maximizing total dollars, then yeah... but it's not. CJ will have more money than he'll possibly ever need in his entire life and he wants to play at home, so he takes less... not that hard to understand at all, and certainly not stupid.

    On a separate note, I was glad to see that the Rangers offer for him was completely uncompetitive... CJ said it wasn't even half of what Florida offered... fewer years, less money... I love it.
    Edited By: resilient Dec 9th, 2011 at 04:29 AM
  16. http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/2...est-of-things/

     

    The Gathering, a church in St. Louis, is asking that if you are parting with your Pujols shirts, jerseys, etc., that you please not just throw them away (or worse). Donate them. The church will be collecting any items and donating them to a clothing pantry in the Los Angeles area. It’s a way to make some good out of what is obviously sad, frustrating day for a lot of Cardinals fans. You can bring the items by 2105 McCausland Ave. during regular business hours on Sunday.

    Beats burning them. I'm keeping mine though.

    Also got a mint Albert rookie card I bought eons ago for like $10 at a trading card store. Hopefully it appreciates in value at a similar clip to AP.
  17. wow @ everyone bitching about how butt hurt jroth is. He's said all along that he doesn't want STL to sign him for a stupid amount of years, and he's definitely not butt hurt. 10 year contracts =bad

    and since Pujols is really 2-3+years older than he says he is, the angels will have him til he goes thru his midlife crisis :)
  18.  
    Originally Posted by tsxxx04 View Post

    wow @ everyone bitching about how butt hurt jroth is. He's said all along that he doesn't want STL to sign him for a stupid amount of years, and he's definitely not butt hurt. 10 year contracts =bad

    and since Pujols is really 2-3+years older than he says he is, the angels will have him til he goes thru his midlife crisis :)

    And how do you know this? So Pujols was a 21yr old high school student in the US?
     
  19. Do I know it? obviously not, but I'm suspicious of it. He's from the DR, he's always looked older than he has said he is, and I read reports that he refused to produce a birth certificate. I've always believed this, never said it was fact or anything close to it.
  20. 254 mil can buy a whole lot of centrum silver.
  21. 10 years is nuts to give to any athlete. Just ask the Yankees with A-Rods 10 year deal he signed at 33... They are loving paying him $170,000 a game watching his numbers and health slowly decline w/ 6 years left on that contract. Even if Albert is his claimed age he's still 31... 4-5 years from now the Angels will be kicking themselves for this. I even think the Rockies are morons for giving Tulo 10 years and he's only 27.
  22.  
    Originally Posted by resilient View Post

    If the equation was only about maximizing total dollars, then yeah... but it's not. CJ will have more money than he'll possibly ever need in his entire life and he wants to play at home, so he takes less... not that hard to understand at all, and certainly not stupid.

    On a separate note, I was glad to see that the Rangers offer for him was completely uncompetitive... CJ said it wasn't even half of what Florida offered... fewer years, less money... I love it.

    I mean obviously everyone cares about different things, but it's very odd. I can't think of another situation where the player said they cared about that stuff and then didn't sign with the Yankees.

    It's a big difference for him to do that than Pujols, because Pujols won't be getting another contract anyway and the difference in money for him was so little. But for Wilson that's a really large amount of money that no team will ever offer him again.

     
    Originally Posted by Realbigfish4 View Post

    10 years is nuts to give to any athlete. Just ask the Yankees with A-Rods 10 year deal he signed at 33... They are loving paying him $170,000 a game watching his numbers and health slowly decline w/ 6 years left on that contract. Even if Albert is his claimed age he's still 31... 4-5 years from now the Angels will be kicking themselves for this. I even think the Rockies are morons for giving Tulo 10 years and he's only 27.

    Of course it's nuts, none of these players should be getting any of this money or these long of contracts. But once one team does it for one player, how can you tell the rest, especially the ones that are better, that they don't deserve it too? That's why it's spiraled out of control and probably can't be fixed.
  23.  
    Originally Posted by Realbigfish4 View Post

    10 years is nuts to give to any athlete. Just ask the Yankees with A-Rods 10 year deal he signed at 33... They are loving paying him $170,000 a game watching his numbers and health slowly decline w/ 6 years left on that contract. Even if Albert is his claimed age he's still 31... 4-5 years from now the Angels will be kicking themselves for this. I even think the Rockies are morons for giving Tulo 10 years and he's only 27.

    Once again, they will be freerolling on Albert so I doubt they give a shit. Their new TV deal just got a whole lot richer because of Albert's signing. His on field production is only one part of the puzzle.

    It clearly wasn't only about money to Pujols since the Marlins offer was for $25MM more, not to mention there being no state income tax in Florida. The Cards didn't think Pujols could leave, so they took him for granted during negotiations.

    "The Angels," he said, "are the ones tugging on my heart."
     
  24.  
    Originally Posted by RJA87 View Post


    Of course it's nuts, none of these players should be getting any of this money or these long of contracts. But once one team does it for one player, how can you tell the rest, especially the ones that are better, that they don't deserve it too? That's why it's spiraled out of control and probably can't be fixed.

    It can be fixed. A salary cap would end a lot of the ridiculousness of these contracts, but its highly unlikely the players assoc. would ever agree to it.
  25.  
    Originally Posted by gamma21 View Post

    Once again, they will be freerolling on Albert so I doubt they give a shit. Their new TV deal just got a whole lot richer because of Albert's signing. His on field production is only one part of the puzzle.

    It clearly wasn't only about money to Pujols since the Marlins offer was for $25MM more, not to mention there being no state income tax in Florida. The Cards didn't think Pujols could leave, so they took him for granted during negotiations.

    Once again...another gamma post ITT that reeks of cluelessness.

    You still haven't explained how the Angels' TV deal is going to produce wins for your team in the last 5 years of his contract.

    And the Cardinals took him for granted during negotiations?? Are you seriously that dumb? Like I've said in a few posts ITT, the Cards don't have an unlimited payroll. The deal they offered would have stretched them fiscally for a few decades...it was way more than they should have offered. Please get a clue.
    Edited By: JRoth15 Dec 9th, 2011 at 07:15 AM
  26.  
    Originally Posted by gamma21 View Post

    Once again, they will be freerolling on Albert so I doubt they give a shit. Their new TV deal just got a whole lot richer because of Albert's signing. His on field production is only one part of the puzzle.

    It clearly wasn't only about money to Pujols since the Marlins offer was for $25MM more, not to mention there being no state income tax in Florida. The Cards didn't think Pujols could leave, so they took him for granted during negotiations.

    "The Angels," he said, "are the ones tugging on my heart."

    are you not looking at it from a fans perspective of wanting to win down the road?
  27.  
    Originally Posted by ScottBrewr99 View Post

    It can be fixed. A salary cap would end a lot of the ridiculousness of these contracts, but its highly unlikely the players assoc. would ever agree to it.

    Yeah exactly once it started it's hard to fix, they can't change the current contracts so how can they say starting now none of the young players will ever have an opportunity to make that much, even if they turn out to be the best?
  28.  
    Originally Posted by ScottBrewr99 View Post

    It can be fixed. A salary cap would end a lot of the ridiculousness of these contracts, but its highly unlikely the players assoc. would ever agree to it.

    I bet they'd agree to it if it included a salary floor as well. Teams like Pittsburgh and KC would fight that though.
     3
  29. Since I doubt the Cards will be spending much more this offseason, I think it would actually make me happy if the Rangers won the Prince Fielder sweepstakes...then signed Yu Darvish.

    1) Prince would be out of the NL Central

    2) The Rangers would still be the team to beat in the AL West. Of course gamma wouldn't care much about this as long as the Angels got their new TV deal so that they can be the kings of LA.
  30.  
    Originally Posted by RJA87 View Post

    Yeah exactly once it started it's hard to fix, they can't change the current contracts so how can they say starting now none of the young players will ever have an opportunity to make that much, even if they turn out to be the best?

    Tough break for the younger guys. They could take comfort in the fact that it was for the good of the game that they love.

     
    Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post

    I bet they'd agree to it if it included a salary floor as well. Teams like Pittsburgh and KC would fight that though.

    I totally agree. They would come around eventually when they realized a salary cap would help those kinds of teams.

    Quick question: Why is everyone so positive that Pujols only has 4-5 good years left? Maybe he starts DH'ing and hits .300 with 45 bombs a year until he's 40. It just seems suspicious that all the Cardinal fans are adamant that the last 7 years of his contract he's going to fall off a cliff production-wise. And don't say "well, it happened to A-Rod", that just sounds bitter and desperate.

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