Are you Hulk Hogan, or related to him?

yeah in the end its the car companies fault. Of course the union is gonna try to get the best deal it can. I'm not an expert oin Unions but it's gotta be the fault of whoever gave them the deal.

If you're selling a bag of nuts for $1 and someone says they'll only pay you 40 cents for it and you say deal. Then you go bankrupt because you only got .40 instead of a dollar, is it really the fault of the dude who made the deal to get the nuts for 40 cents?

edit: Liek I said, I'm not sure if these car companies could have said no deal, we're not paying you that. I would imagine so. Probably not easy to bust a union though. All I know is I wish I would have taken two transfers offered to me to union jobs at my old job. all those people are still working but I wanted to keep my management job and I got laid off before the people that had been there three weeks.

Whether it was right or wrong, the Big 3 promised big retirement benefits to now retired workers. Even if they pay new workers dirt cheap wages, they are still on the hook for former employees. So, how do solve that? It is fair to take away the retirement of 2,000,000+ people who were promised, in writing, such a benefit?

That is not all of the problem. A big part of it, but not all of it.
Other factors include, the lenders tightening up their criteria to loan money. With all the repos and losses they are experiencing, it is becoming ever more difficult to finance a car for someone.
Also, the used car market has gone hay wire. Experiencing drops in valuse like no other time in history, again making it difficult to trade someone out of their present car.
Plenty of other factors as well.

Why are our car companies, airlines, and schools etc so bad? What do they all have in common? I can't figure it out.

 

Originally Posted by GODSHAMGOD

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

 

Originally Posted by El Burro

I think the UAW shoulders most of the blame for problems with the Big 3.

maybe you know more about unions than me. I don't know a whole lot.

But did UAW gold a gun to the big three's head. couldn't they have said no and went with non-union workers. Isn't that what Toyota does here in the U.S.?

LOL. You voted democrat too.

zomg, I voted for a Democrat. That must mean I agree with everything they stand for. I'm a zombie. brainssssssss

 

Originally Posted by moman1965

That is not all of the problem. A big part of it, but not all of it.
Other factors include, the lenders tightening up their criteria to loan money. With all the repos and losses they are experiencing, it is becoming ever more difficult to finance a car for someone.
Also, the used car market has gone hay wire. Experiencing drops in valuse like no other time in history, again making it difficult to trade someone out of their present car.
Plenty of other factors as well.

These companies were unprofitable before it all went to sht.

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

 

Originally Posted by GODSHAMGOD

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

 

Originally Posted by El Burro

I think the UAW shoulders most of the blame for problems with the Big 3.

maybe you know more about unions than me. I don't know a whole lot.

But did UAW gold a gun to the big three's head. couldn't they have said no and went with non-union workers. Isn't that what Toyota does here in the U.S.?

LOL. You voted democrat too.

zomg, I voted for a Democrat. That must mean I agree with everything they stand for. I'm a zombie. brainssssssss

Not saying that at all. But the democratic party is clearly the pro union party. The party that wants to give the bail out. They want better pay for their workers and then complain when jobs are shipped over seas. Business is about competition. This should be a surprise to no one. It has killed these companies.

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

But did UAW gold a gun to the big three's head?

I'm not an expert on the situation, but I would imagine that your proposal would require replacing about a third of the population of the state of Michigan.

I don't believe Toyota had any US-based assembly plants prior to 1984. They may have had the opportunity to see what happens when an exterior union controls your personnel, and put measures in place to prevent it from happening to them.

Sure. And in the free market the companies that have unions will eventually lose out to those that don't. If we didn't expand the money supply so recklessly we would have realized this far sooner IMO.

From a retailer standopint, gas prices killed us for most of the summer. Changed the market something fierce. But the downward spiral has been going on since 9/11. We keep wondering when it will stop, but at this point, it continues.

Okay, here is the problem... when Iot in the business in 1988, you could buy an Escort for about 5k. Your income said you could spend about 5k so all was good. now, the car cost almost 17k, yet our incomes have only risen to the point that you can afforda 10k car. so the industry had to find a way to keep selling cars, so creative financing became the norm. Whether it be extended terms, overadvanced loans, leases, balloons, whatever. So the retailers are partly to blame for this.

Seems to me that when times are good, those managers and executives are absolutely fucking brilliant with their decision making skills ...... and when times are bad, those greedy union bastards fucked us over. Just sayin.

Collective bargaining agreements are signed by both parties. If you're gonna dish out some blame, there's plenty to go around.

stupid CEO's took private jets to get to Washington.

spent 20k on transportation to go beg for money

I have been watching CNBC the last few days. Does anyone have confidence in anyone of the four people being questioned(big 3 ceos and union head)? I wouldn't want to loan these guys 25 dollars let alone 25 billion. And we ALL KNOW the 25 billion is just buying a little time. Nothing else.