until science proves god does not exist...religion will always play a significant role in the human race.

my religion teaches individual responsiblity and how not to rely on others if you're able to do it yourself.

not quite sure which religion you are talking about....

 

Originally Posted by Thatislife

 

Originally Posted by JDeEzLy

With that said, I don't believe in God. I was an alter boy 5-7 years ago, and I suddenly had an epiphany and realized that, IMO, God doesn't exist.

This brings up another issue.

lol wp, wp

 

Originally Posted by threebanger

Anyone who's extremely religious or anti-religious has not automatically "failed at life." GG "mature, intelligent discussion."

GG reading comprehension skills. If you actually READ what I said and didn't immediately dismiss it as the idiotic dribble you probably thought it was, you'd CLEARLY see that I said that it's only those who are so staunch in their beliefs that they are ignorant to discussion of religion who have failed at life. I'm guessing that your complete failure to even read one post without immediately dismissing the notion lumps you in the group that has failed.

 

Originally Posted by PrestonLuv

until science proves god does not exist...religion will always play a significant role in the human race.

Assuming that those who are religious accept the scientific proof.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying religion is wrong by any means.

Just that it is an instrument man created to control and pacify mankind. Society should have order, harmony and rule. It was a great idea and Jesus was a GREAT man.

Like several others, I really hesitate to jump into these discussions, cuz well, no good ever comes out of em and everyone just gets bitter with each other.

My view on the subject is this: I do think organized religion is a little silly, for many reasons - I dont believe that if there is a god, theyd want all the strict pomp and circumstance. And also, for something so grand and complex, what are the odds that we'd nail it exactly with any one dogma? With all of the dozens or hundreds of religions over the years, what are the odds that YOURS is right? Playing the numbers, the chances are pretty slim.

But all in all, I have no problem letting anybody believe what they want to believe. I know I should have the right to decide for myself what to believe, so I should extend that to others. My problem is that not everyone feels the same. you never hear of atheists slaughtering religious people and forcing them to not believe in god, or forcing their beliefs on others in non-murderous ways.

but there's plenty of evidence of religious fanatics killing millions upon millions, and even in less dire situations...how many girls have been denied emergency contraception after a rape because of religious reasons, or people that have refused medical treatment that could have easily saved their lives because some priest told them not to. How many laws are in place on religious grounds now rather than actual policy and evidence. how many non-scientists are enforcing "morals"-based policy in positions of power at the FDA and NASA?

Science doesnt shoot down religion. It says here's what science says, if you want to believe in something else, go ahead. Not all, but some, religious people in positions of power (and ones that arent) seem determined to castrate science or somehow invalidate it. I love how people in this thread are questioning evolution or the big bang. If you dont believe in them, fine. But until you show us some contradictory evidence or an alternate theory supported by something more than "they sound stupid", you cant take an opposing viewpoint, just a parallel one - you subscribe to the religious theory, not the scientific one, and they arent even in the same category. Just because science cant explain something doesnt mean its wrong - we're learning more and more about the universe, at a faster rate now than ever, and just because nobody has rushed to make up some story to explain something we cant prove yet doesnt mean the current evidence is wrong. Remember, gravity is just a theory too - but I doubt youre gonna go jump off the roof to test it.

And not only do extremists try to invalidate science, they try to stop it. Now, I'm not 100% certain of how I feel on stem cell research (and I know a pretty good amount about it, Ive had lengthy conversations with some of the leading researchers in America). But its a good example of a field that has been crippled on religious grounds without enough research into whether or not it should be researched thoroughly - and you tell someone with Parkinson's that they dont deserve a cure because the research is immoral. Remember, stem cell research gave us skin grafting, and nobody is bitching about that. I look at science - human understanding of the world around us - as the barometer of civilization and advancement of society. When people's beliefs make them try to stop the advancement of human knowledge and civilization, that's a problem for everybody.

Im gonna go with OP in this one - believe what you want, but dont take it too literally. Scripture is usually LONG - and if you wanna take it literally, you can usually find one or two lines in there somewhere to justify anything (just ask Fred Phelps).

Look at it as a vague guide on how to live right, take from it what you think is valid and leave the rest, and dont try to force it on anybody else - everybody has to get to that place themselves from their own experience. People learn these "morals" and codas for living from tons of sources - personal experience, family, friends and yes, books - and not just "holy scripture". Ive read the scripture of a half dozen religions, and have picked out a few things I like and adhere to - but I've learned as much, or probably more, from fiction. Stories all teach you things about how humans work and what the world is like, and let's face it, theres more fiction than scripture out there. So look at scripture as yet another story with a moral, like a fable or a classical epic - a story meant to describe human virtue and teach you how to act, nothing more.

And remember that theyll still be having this debate in a thousand years when most humans are arguing over which is the true god, Jason Bourne or a giant talking squirrel named Sanchez.

IMO religion was a way to control the masses years ago.

The fact the most of the modern world is built around something we can never prove is ridiculous. I'd like to think there is something after this life but the whole idea of a supreme being is fucking stupid, I mean who "made" God etc.

If Mr Christ comes back down to say hi and prove it all I'll believe it but until then I'll just wonder why so many people fear something they don't and can't prove is real.

Oh and Greek Mythology>Roman

There is a staggering amount of ignorance being displayed in this thread regarding the basis of our system of laws and moral theory. We will only continue to survive as a society because our laws are derived from judgments about what is considered moral and just, most of which has been historically derived from Christianity. Throw whatever temper tantrum you want and claim that you will do as you see fit, but in the end most of you will end up conforming to a system that was begun to be established when Moses came down the mountain with the Ten Commandments.

The only alternative is to accept the dangerously misguided view that morality is relative and is determined in the eye of the beholder. This leaves its adherents claiming that the same act can be viewed as moral by one party and immoral by another, and neither are wrong. This is of course impossible. Rape is either moral or immoral. Murder is either moral or immoral. Abortion is either moral or immoral.

If you take the position that in some cases it is this, and in other cases it is that, this leaves most of you who recite your humanist mantra of "I'll figure out what's right for me" with the impossible and foolhardy task of arguing that both sides of a contradiction can be true.

The reason I am agnostic rather than atheist is the same reason I am not religious.

Most civilisations have their own version of "god". Australian Aboriginals have their dreamtime stories to explain how the world came to be. NZ maori believe that one of their gods went fishing and caught either the north or south island (I don't know which) of NZ. The romans and the greeks all had different gods. Indians have gods that they worship.

So I can't say that gods do not exist but I can't say that one version of god better than another either. Just because Christians were better at self promotion (is this why americans are mainly christian????) shouldn't be the basis of who I believe in.

And BC, start your own religion. that way you can make sure that it follows all the ideals you want. 19. i have slept with more girls than guys. I am sure you will have plenty of followers

 

Originally Posted by PrestonLuv

Religion and Spirituality have brought countless amounts of courage, happiness, hope and love to the Newton household.

Drugs and alcohol have brought countless amounts of courage, happiness, hope, and love to my household. At least my crutch is something tangible...

"If evolution is real then why isn't there only one species? If we all started evolving at the same time what happened? Evolution is bullshit"

"For a long time I considered that whole theory. Once you stop and look at how delicate the ecosystem is, once you begin to get a small grasp on how complex and wonderous just the human body is, it becomes more and more difficult to believe that this was the result of just some cosmic accident. In fact it is nearly impossible."

Gold Jerry, Gold!

Maybe ecosystems are too delicate and complex for you to grasp but for some of us they are not.

The thing I find most humorous about this ‘debate' is some people have studied biology extensively and it would seem that these folks might have a good grip on the theory of evolution and what it really means. If I have a question about theoretical mathematics, I am going to ask someone with a PhD in theoretical mathematics and I highly doubt I am going to argue with his answer (lol, I might argue, that's just me, but think how stupid I would sound doing so). But for some reason, many religious kooks (and I use "kooks" in the most positive way possible here) think they have some sort of grasp of the situation because they read the bible (a strong biology textbook...in Texas or Kansas maybe, lol) and can, therefore, intelligently discuss the issue.

To head off the eventual "then you should listen to the theoretical theologians for the same reason" arguement...theologians are not scientists, they are creative mythologists using a fairytale written to control and manipulate the masses as a foundation.

 

Originally Posted by Jennifear

This is disproven. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, so gas "appearing" out of nowhere would make no sense. Since there is matter, there always has been matter, so my best guess is that it was always here, but I don't claim to know the first thing about it. Ask a scientist. They'll have a better idea.

the idea that everything "poofed" into existance does seem like a stretch. however, the idea that either the universe has always existed, or if god poofed it into existance, that god has always existed is a bit more of a stretch.

time must have a beginning, or else an infinite amount of time would have to have passed... and that makes no sense.
i suppose in the case of god, one could say god transcends the laws of our universe... that he transcends time and it's not a problem if he's always existed, my feeble brain just cant comprehend his complexity.
and id like to say 'well, you know, i suppose that makes sense.' but then when a 6-year-old was telling me about a leprechaun sitting with his pot o gold at the end of a rainbow, id try to tell him rainbows dont have tangible ends that meet the earth... and hed tell me 'leprechains are magical, dude! they dont have to bow down to your interpretation of reality!' and id have to say 'well, yeah, i suppose that makes sense.'
maybe after i die, ill get to meet god and he can drop some knowledge on me... until then, ill stick to believing in things that have been proven. and if god cant respect that and condemns me to eternal damnation, then fuck that guy.

and thanks eye knows for the props on the story. people, it's a bit long, but it's on page 2 and well worth the read.

organized religion is absurd. any religion is absurd. didn't read everything, but bfactor and jennifear seemed to make the smartest statements. saw some awesome stupidity in this thread. if you dont think the big bang is how the universe is created, you are stupid. as for the evolution comments...lol. every religious person should stop being religious. really, think about what you are saying. god? lol. it is no use to talk sense into religious people, it is the reason they are religious in the first place.

 

Originally Posted by aholthaus33

 

Originally Posted by chstone

 

Originally Posted by aholthaus33

Do both Buddhism and Hinduism believe in reincarnation and over different lifetimes moving up levels of enlightenment or something similar to this?

Yes...and no. I do not know if I really understand the difference and my teacher's answer were usually unsatisfactory. They both believe in reincarnation. Hinduism believes in "moving up" each time you are born based on your previous lives(ie your karma.) You can move up from plant to animal to human, to human in a better life, etc. Buddhism is slightly different. As far as I understand, your thoughts/actions/level of enlightement stay with you. But its not "you." Yeah like I said I don't really understand the difference and the Buddhist version seems to be more complex.

i really need to look into this more. reincarnation is so fascinating to me. a friend of mine that im getting to know well has spoke with me some on it. he is convinced that we have known each other before.

your friend may just be trying to get you in the sack