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Joined: Feb 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 10:44am) in reply to SevenCostanza
My friend went back in and talked to the bartender. This bar is right next to his house and one of his regular hangouts. I didn't get the impression that the bartender thinks she could do anything much differently in the scenario, as she was just trying to deescalate the situation as fast as possible, but I think she was going to say something to the girl when she sees her again and she's sober. Beaverton-Hillsboro area has a big Hispanic population, so it wouldn't be great business decision to let something like this spiral into anything bigger for them. I didn't know what to expect when I posted this, as I was trying to calm my friend down and said a lot of the same things about not letting someone affect you so much as there's no way you're going to make the situation better by being confrontational. I'm not a minority and haven't had to deal with something like this. Just wondered what everyone else would had to say about it.
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Prestonluv
Hi. I'm awesome.
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overreactions
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*Point of Clarification*
Said establishment was not a public place. It was a privately owned company, unless I missed the government ran part.
Being allowed to do whatever the fuck you want in your own place, even if it is abhorrent, >>>>>> someone else's feeling. -
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 3:19pm) in reply to LDM
I agree with this and I also agree with your right to talk to the owner or manager to try and find an equitable, voluntary solution or boycott the place if that is impossible.Originally Posted by LDM
*Point of Clarification*
Said establishment was not a public place. It was a privately owned company, unless I missed the government ran part.
Being allowed to do whatever the fuck you want in your own place, even if it is abhorrent, >>>>>> someone else's feeling. -
aaaaah, welcome back to the good ol' days of 1951.
Originally Posted by LDM
*Point of Clarification*
Said establishment was not a public place. It was a privately owned company, unless I missed the government ran part.
Being allowed to do whatever the fuck you want in your own place, even if it is abhorrent, >>>>>> someone else's feeling.
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Posts: 14,473
Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 3:39pm) in reply to EyeKnows
That was enforced by government law. It is unlikely that a place like that would survive in a climate without government sanction of such an attitude.
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not really, businesses were free to serve non-whites, they chose to not serve them, don't know where you are getting that.
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
That was enforced by government law. It is unlikely that a place like that would survive in a climate without government sanction of such an attitude.
wonder what would happen if government allowed people the freedom to do this again, doubt it would be pretty. -
Posts: 14,473
Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 4:25pm) in reply to EyeKnows
Edited By: Dyzalot Jan 29th, 2012 at 04:24 PMExample of how government didn't restrict business from serving all races.Originally Posted by EyeKnows
not really, businesses were free to serve non-whites, they chose to not serve them, don't know where you are getting that.
wonder what would happen if government allowed people the freedom to do this again, doubt it would be pretty.
That was in Alabama.It shall be unlawful to conduct a restaurant or other place for the serving of food in the city, at which white and colored people are served in the same room, unless such white and colored persons are effectually separated by a solid partition extending from the floor upward to a distance of seven feet or higher, and unless a separate entrance from the street is provided for each compartment.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/jcrow02.htm
Government law made it costly for business to cater to both whites and blacks. Sure, they made the ultimate decision but it was due to the government getting involved in the economy and picking "winners" and "losers" in the realm of morality.
It is amazing how many people don't understand how pervasive Jim Crow laws were. -
the law you quoted said they could serve non-whites, like I said - businesses could choose to serve non-whites if they wanted. you said they couldn't and it was enforced by law, kind of a stretch.
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
Example of how government didn't restrict business from serving all races.
That was in Alabama.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/jcrow02.htm
Government law made it costly for business to cater to both whites and blacks. Sure, they made the ultimate decision but it was due to the government getting involved in the economy and picking "winners" and "losers" in the realm of morality.
It is amazing how many people don't understand how pervasive Jim Crow laws were.
lol @ me not knowing about jim crow laws. -
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 5:02pm) in reply to EyeKnows
Edited By: Dyzalot Jan 29th, 2012 at 05:02 PMFrom Georgia...Originally Posted by EyeKnows
the law you quoted said they could serve non-whites, like I said - businesses could choose to serve non-whites if they wanted. you said they couldn't and it was enforced by law, kind of a stretch.
lol @ me not knowing about jim crow laws.
All persons licensed to conduct a restaurant, shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room or serve the two races anywhere under the same license.
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again, they can serve non-whites, like I said, correct?
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
From Georgia...
All persons licensed to conduct a restaurant, shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room or serve the two races anywhere under the same license.
it is obvious there were hurdles created by law, I get it (and knew it, not completely ignorant about this), but businesses were able to choose to serve non-whites. -
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 5:14pm) in reply to EyeKnows
As long as they "chose" to not serve whites. What kind of choice is that?Originally Posted by EyeKnows
again, they can serve non-whites, like I said, correct?
it is obvious there were hurdles created by law, I get it (and knew it, not completely ignorant about this), but businesses were able to choose to serve non-whites.
Again, that's why I can say that you wouldn't get the same result today since there aren't Jim Crow laws in place. -
a personal choice. many folks did choose to serve non-whites
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
As long as they "chose" to not serve whites. What kind of choice is that?
are you saying the difference in accommodations were because of the laws? I think you have it backwards. or sideways. I am pretty sure it is because of racist, white folks that didn't want to have non-whites in their restaurant. the laws were codifying the already in-place behaviors of racists. and if we suddenly had the freedom to discriminate/refuse service on the basis of race there would instantly be plenty of white-only restaurants.Originally Posted by Dyzalot
Again, that's why I can say that you wouldn't get the same result today since there aren't Jim Crow laws in place.
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lol beaverton chicks.
Edited By: Reech Jan 29th, 2012 at 05:35 PM
ftr, when i hear stuff like this at my bar, I'll usually tell the commenting person to knock off that talk or take it elsewhere. However, I would assume a grown man would know how to respond to it before I had to intervene. -
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 5:32pm) in reply to EyeKnows
No I'm saying the laws were put in place to protect the economic interests of the racists. This is another reason why government should be separated from the economy just as it is from religion. In today's world, without these laws, any business that tried such a marketing strategy would fail. Society punishes people for bigotry.Originally Posted by EyeKnows
are you saying the difference in accommodations were because of the laws? I think you have it backwards. or sideways. I am pretty sure it is because of racist, white folks that didn't want to have non-whites in their restaurant. the laws were codifying the already in-place behaviors of racists. and if we suddenly had the freedom to discriminate/refuse service on the basis of race there would instantly be plenty of white-only restaurants.
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I am confused, weren't they able to discriminate before the laws you quoted?
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
No I'm saying the laws were put in place to protect the economic interests of the racists. This is another reason why government should be separated from the economy just as it is from religion. In today's world, without these laws, any business that tried such a marketing strategy would fail. Society punishes people for bigotry.
those behaviors were already in place, the laws were passed in response to court rulings in the north that threatened these behaviors - as an effort to avoid/delay northern intrusion into southern "heritage" (it's not hate, come on) these types of laws were passed. the laws didn't create the behavior at all; it was there already.
there is no doubt in my mind many businesses would thrive and prosper, many at least short-term and a fewer number long-term, if they were able to and chose to serve white-only. -
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Joined: Feb 08Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 6:06pm) in reply to EyeKnows
I'm a minority who's heard his fair share of racist shit said to him at bars and I think you're friend needs a shit ton of vagisil.
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 6:07pm) in reply to marc1313
The laws were put in to place to protect racists from being out-competed by non-racists. The laws removed the economic consequences of immorality. And do you really believe there are enough people who would seek out and do business with "whites only" restaurants that they could stay in business? Doubtful. I coud see the headlines when it is shown that a company is supplying to a restaurant that only serves whites. I can only imagine the scene outside such restaurants. They would never survive without laws to protect them.
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It is amazing how many people don't understand how pervasive racism still is.
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
The laws were put in to place to protect racists from being out-competed by non-racists. The laws removed the economic consequences of immorality. And do you really believe there are enough people who would seek out and do business with "whites only" restaurants that they could stay in business? Doubtful. I coud see the headlines when it is shown that a company is supplying to a restaurant that only serves whites. I can only imagine the scene outside such restaurants. They would never survive without laws to protect them.
there would be white-only restaurants in many places at the beginning, just like any other businesses, some will fail but others will succeed, natural selection in the business world. racists would dig in their heels way more than you think. -
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 6:30pm) in reply to EyeKnows
Racists can dig in their heels all they want. It won't keep banks from foreclosing on them if they can't pay their bills. If this country was as racist as you claim then there is no way that Obama would be president. There is no law to keep people from voting for white candidates only.Originally Posted by EyeKnows
It is amazing how many people don't understand how pervasive racism still is.
there would be white-only restaurants in many places at the beginning, just like any other businesses, some will fail but others will succeed, natural selection in the business world. racists would dig in their heels way more than you think.
Another example of how pervasive the laws were.
Any person...who shall be guilty of printing, publishing or circulating printed, typewritten or written matter urging or presenting for public acceptance or general information, arguments or suggestions in favor of social equality or of intermarriage between whites and negroes, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to fine or not exceeding five hundred (500.00) dollars or imprisonment not exceeding six (6) months or both
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Joined: Jun 09Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 6:32pm) in reply to Dyzalot
According to Ron Paul's newsletter, "95 percent of the black males in Washington DC are semi-criminal or entirely criminal".
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Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 6:47pm) in reply to kellykip
I agree. Of course the same could be said for people of any race in D.C.Originally Posted by kellykip
According to Ron Paul's newsletter, "95 percent of the black males in Washington DC are semi-criminal or entirely criminal".
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lol @ foreclosing, a business has to not pay bills to have that happen. some of those businesses would thrive, many more than you would think. I am certain there are defacto white-only businesses today, there would instantly be thousands of white-only businesses if it weren't illegal.
Edited By: EyeKnows Jan 29th, 2012 at 07:11 PM
the patrons would not be the people that voted for President Obama.
and stop w the law-quoting (if it is for my benefit anyway), I am familiar w jim crow laws and their impact. I am kinda surprised you aren't coming up with better stuff though, I would think there were way worse laws to cite than what you have posted.
edit - ok dyz, I looked back at my posts and your original objection, I slightly misspoke when I said they were "free" to serve non-whites, there were definitely hurdles/hoops to jump through (as I quickly conceded/noted) that made people less than free to do as they wanted. -
who said that?
Originally Posted by 36crazyfists
Thousands of white only businesses would pop up and thrive?
I'm convinced... -
Posts: 14,473
Joined: May 05Jan 29th, 2012 (1/29/2012 8:36pm) in reply to EyeKnows
The only way you can claim that this would occur in a free market is to make the claim that white people are somehow superior to other races when it comes to business. I reject such a hypothesis.Originally Posted by EyeKnows
I am certain there are defacto white-only businesses today, there would instantly be thousands of white-only businesses if it weren't illegal.
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