What would be the downside for the president to come out this morning and say fine, (Boehner) before trying to repeal the healthcare bill you need to have reform spelled out to the american public of exactly what you are replacing it with. I think it is safe to say almost every american wants some kind of reform but to repeal without a plan is going against what the majority wants. What is your plan?

 

Originally Posted by mesaplayeraz

get rid of it being mandatory and allow us to buy insurance across state lines is a start!

+1 for the mandatory bull shit. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't try to make this shit mandatory. If that part doesn't get repealed, I'm gonna be on here saying how many fines I get for not buying health insurance. Unless the health insurance that I buy for my baby is enough to qualify for that.

Another thing that needs to change is that NO ONE should be exempt from this bill or any other bill Congress passes. If the Dems think this health care bill is so great, then why did they make it so that certain people in Washington are exempt from having to get their health care like the rest of us? It's another part of this bill that is totally fucking bullshit!

 

Originally Posted by Bigblind Popper

and while there at it, can they make it so auto insurance, and home owners insurance arent mandatory either! You people act like this is some kind of new evil.

Yeah because we all know its mandatory to own a vehicle or a home! lol @ people still using auto insurance in this argument!

How do they deal with the pre-existing condition problem? A lot of people won't get insurance until they're having problems. Would be like getting car insurance after you wreck and trying to turn in the claim.

How on fucking earth are people comparing auto insurance to health insurance? Auto insurance affects other people in an accident. If I don't have insurance and cant afford my medical coverage thats my own problem. Agree that it should be mandatory for children as they aren't old enough to cover themselves.

Boehner and the Republicans idea of healthcare reform is to coddle the insurance companies and allow them to call all the shots. Pre-existing conditions, no coverage, major illness exceeding $1,000,000 in care, care stops, over age 18, coverage is no longer provided under your parents plan and on and on. The Republicans aren't interested in the needs of the people, they are only interested in the needs of the insurance companies for greater and greater profits.

Didn't people see/understand this during the debate before health care was passed?

 

Originally Posted by raisethis2

Boehner and the Republicans idea of healthcare reform is to coddle the insurance companies and allow them to call all the shots. Pre-existing conditions, no coverage, major illness exceeding $1,000,000 in care, care stops, over age 18, coverage is no longer provided under your parents plan and on and on. The Republicans aren't interested in the needs of the people, they are only interested in the needs of the insurance companies for greater and greater profits.

Didn't people see/understand this during the debate before health care was passed?

THIS

 

Originally Posted by Magnet Steve

You realize Obamacare was pretty much authored by the health insurance industry, right? It was basically a big giveaway that won't reduce costs a dime.

CBO disagrees with you. Actually for anyone to repeal the healthcare bill they will have to find programs to cut in other places because the healthcare bill saves money.

 

Originally Posted by Magnet Steve

I've thrown out the challenge before, and not a single person has yet to respond. Please inform me on how forcing insurance companies to cover anyone and everyone, adding millions of new subscribers that are higher risk (due to pre-existing conditions), and increasing health care companies' liabilities (by removing lifetime caps) is going to do ANYTHING to reduce the cost of health care for the average American. Please do.

I'm not a doctor/health care professional so this is complete bullshit on my part...I'd guess the argument is that because people are covered they will take advantage of more preventative medicine, which will reduce costs of insurance over the longterm? I'm sure there is a better answer, sorry.

 

Originally Posted by goofy2485

How on fucking earth are people comparing auto insurance to health insurance? Auto insurance affects other people in an accident. If I don't have insurance and cant afford my medical coverage thats my own problem. Agree that it should be mandatory for children as they aren't old enough to cover themselves.

You really think that it has no impact on others if you go in to the hospital for catastrophic injury/illness and you don't have coverage?



Oh, and it won't be repealed.

Why would that person go on the "mandated" coverage. Why wouldn't he just pay the fine. The fine is less than one month's health insurance cost. $95 or 1% of income? Any poor college aged healthy person is paying the fine.

maybe you missed the reports in may that stated the health care bill is going to cost 115b more then previously assessed? It now will save no money whats so ever. Plus as any government run program it will add more and more to the cost. OR maybe you missed the report that came from Obamas office that stated now in the findings it will not cut savings in medical coverage at all. It will raise it 1% over the next 10 years instead of lowering our costs.

as for the catastrophic injury/illness point. If you have no coverage they still have to give you service. In america the health system can not refuse service. If you are critically ill.

 

Originally Posted by raisethis2

The Republicans aren't interested in the needs of the people, they are only interested in the needs of the insurance companies for greater and greater profits.

 

Originally Posted by budo09

CBO disagrees with you. Actually for anyone to repeal the healthcare bill they will have to find programs to cut in other places because the healthcare bill saves money.

People really believe these statements???

Here is a hard fact for you all to chew on. I was gonna start a new thread or find the old one from when I got the first letter but this is as good a place as any.

Below is an exerpt from the letter I got from Emblem Health regarding the Health Insurance plan that my business provides for its employees. The part I am citing is a breakdown of the approx. 18.9% increase that they are forcasting for me when my policy is up for renewal. (Side note: Weird huh? Didn't they say costs would go down?) #3 is the one you should be paying attention to and I bolded it so you can't miss it.

1. New Increases in Medical Costs (about 9 percent).
2. Elimination of Timothy's Law Subsidy (about 1 percent).
3. FEDERAL HEALTH CARE REFORM (ABOUT 3.9 PERCENT).
4. Rates Increased by Us before the New Prior Approval Law was passed (about 5 percent).

 

Originally Posted by Magnet Steve

It's real simple economics, and Dem politicians know it. This bill is the trojan horse to single payer.

Quoted so hopefully people will read it again but don't take his word for it, or mine.

If you are truly interested in confirming the above statement, a Google search will find you clear video and audio of Barack Obama, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi all saying at seperate times and places that the 1st step in bringing single payer to this country would be to pass a bill just like this one.

Most of these statements were made way before they started pushing for the bill and Obama became president, but it is clear proof that their endgame is to eliminate all private Insurance Companies and replace them with one government entity that will "provide" Healthcare to all Americans.

If you are in UD's camp and believe that the Government will be better at dispensing coverage with zero competition then you should be happy because you are on the way to getting your wish.

However, if you do not believe this, but instead believe Obama when he says he has no interest in putting private insurers out of business and that he can provide better coverage to more people and cover all pre-existing conditions while bringing Healthcare costs DOWN, the statements by Obama and co. along with the letter I posted above will show you clearly that they are full of shit.

EDITED TO ADD: If their own words and the letter I received aren't enough to convince you then just use simple logic.

How on earth do you cover more people, with a better level of care, and cover all pre-existing conditions without raising prices?

Someone who could do this should be able to just heal all of the sick with a wave of his hand.

Liberals, naive people, bleeding hearts, and dumb people don't believe things until THEY get a letter or THEY have hundreds less per paycheck. I assume to them higher prices = lower costs because they are "doing their part" for "change". Congrats on that.

 

Originally Posted by baughman

maybe you missed the reports in may that stated the health care bill is going to cost 115b more then previously assessed? It now will save no money whats so ever. Plus as any government run program it will add more and more to the cost. OR maybe you missed the report that came from Obamas office that stated now in the findings it will not cut savings in medical coverage at all. It will raise it 1% over the next 10 years instead of lowering our costs.

as for the catastrophic injury/illness point. If you have no coverage they still have to give you service. In america the health system can not refuse service. If you are critically ill.

Exactly. Only difference now is instead of being stuck with a $300k bill after the catostrophic illness they are billing you in advance monthly and over time you will have paid much more than that. or you won't use it at all (if you die of natural causes) and that money will be covering someone elses illness.
That's not even factoring in the rates continuing to rise. So all that changed is we all pay more forever. Awesome! Considering I have coverage already I wasn't going to be stuck with a 300k bill anyhow. But enough about me me me. We have illegals healthcare we need to cover, I'm so selfish.

Cliffnote: before the number of illegals ran wild hospitals were able to write off a certain amount of free care and not be in the red, now they can't. Lower the number and costs get under control in that area so we are not all paying for the free care they snuck into the country for. Not that I blame them, I would come to! It's our job to close loopholes not theirs.

I would have been fine with the current health care system. but only if hospitals refused patients with no insurance. Since that didn't happen, well then there needed to be major reform, which is what we got.

We need 1 of there two things. You can pick

1. Hospitals stop taking patients with no insurance
2. Mandate for everyone to have insurance

 

Originally Posted by p00pymcp00perton

Currently uninsured are forced to use emergency rooms for basic healthcare. The general rule is that you cannot refuse care for emergency patients. Who pays for this care? Well partially Medicaid, but much of these costs are passed on to consumers via higher prices (to make up for lost profits obviously). Under the new healthcare legislation, those uninsured people will be insured. Once insured, they won't have to use the emergency room as their primary mode of receiving healthcare. Primary/preventative care costs significantly less than emergency care.

And there is your requested argument that does something (or in your words - ANYTHING) to reduce healthcare costs. TahDah!

Seriously???

You think that people who were uninsured before because they simply couldn't afford it or because they were lazy are all of a sudden going to become insured because Obama threatens them with a tiny fine? You know better than that, I think.