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Equality bishes!!!
Candidates differ on female draft
Monday, October 13, 2008
By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Even as the U.S. confronts two long wars, neither Sen. John McCain nor Sen. Barack Obama believes the country should take the politically perilous step of reviving the military draft.
But the two presidential candidates disagree on a key foundation of any future draft: Mr. Obama supports a requirement for both men and women to register with the Selective Service, while Mr. McCain doesn't think women should have to register.
Also, Mr. Obama would consider officially opening combat positions to women. Mr. McCain would not.
"Women are already serving in combat [in Iraq and Afghanistan] and the current policy should be updated to reflect realities on the ground," said Wendy Morigi, Mr. Obama's national security spokeswoman. "Barack Obama would consult with military commanders to review the constraints that remain."
According to his campaign, Mr. McCain supports the current Department of Defense restrictions on women in combat units, including armor, field artillery and special forces.
In 1980, President Jimmy Carter revived the Selective Service system, which compiles a list of nearly all men in the U.S. between 18 and 25 in case a crisis forces the government to undertake a massive expansion of the military.
Both Congress and the Supreme Court have exempted women from registration because of the combat rules.
For years, that position has rankled some women's rights groups and men who face penalties for not registering -- including loss of employment with the federal government -- at a time when female soldiers regularly find themselves in dangerous situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, both conflicts without defined battlefields.
Mr. McCain, a decorated former Navy pilot who spent five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, speaks often of how his military service has helped prepare him for the role of commander in chief and how his time as a captive in Hanoi reinforced his love of country.
Yet he doesn't want to see a return to mandatory service, for men or women, according to his presidential campaign.
"Sen. McCain strongly believes that an all-volunteer force is preferable to a conscripted force," said Paul Lindsay, a spokesman for the campaign. "The tools available to recruiters have historically enabled the all-volunteer force to attract sufficient numbers of qualified recruits."
His views are echoed by many high-ranking officers in the military, who prefer a force of motivated volunteers. But some of the same officers have also expressed concerns about the strains of more than six years of sustained combat in Afghanistan and Iraq, especially if the U.S. commitment in both countries doesn't end in the near future.
Mr. Obama has said repeatedly that he will draw down the U.S. military presence in Iraq if he becomes president, but he has also said he would increase the number of troops in Afghanistan, where Taliban forces have seen a resurgence in recent years.
During a CNN/YouTube debate for Democratic presidential candidates last year, he said he doesn't "agree" with the draft.
But he did say women should be expected to register with the Selective Service, comparing the role of women to black soldiers and airmen who served during World War II, when the armed forces were still segregated.
"There was a time when African-Americans weren't allowed to serve in combat," Mr. Obama said. "And yet, when they did, not only did they perform brilliantly, but what also happened is they helped to change America, and they helped to underscore that we're equal.
"And I think that if women are registered for service -- not necessarily in combat roles, and I don't agree with the draft -- I think it will help to send a message to my two daughters that they've got obligations to this great country as well as boys do."
Elaine Donnelly, a former member of President Bill Clinton's Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces, dismissed Mr. Obama's comparison of the roles of women and black soldiers, arguing that males and females, in general, aren't equal on the battlefield.
"There are differences between men and women where physical strength is an issue," said Ms. Donnelly, who heads the nonpartisan Center for Military Readiness. "There are a lot of civilian feminists who are making unreasonable demands on the military."
Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president of the National Women's Law Center, argues that women should have a chance to compete for any position in the armed forces.
"I hope a new president will revisit the restrictions," she said.
Jerome L. Sherman can be reached at jsherman@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1183. -
Jaybone2315
Professional Couch Ruiner
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Joined: Jul 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 2:54pm) in reply to 36crazyfists
bitches should of thought of this when they were fighting for equal rights.
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equal rights should mean equal responsibility so sure why the hell not?
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Posts: 1,598
Joined: Mar 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 2:56pm) in reply to 36crazyfists
I would draft jessica alba on the 1st round
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Mr Galt
sister-in-law's a ho
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Joined: Nov 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 2:58pm) in reply to 36crazyfists
Any woman that can carry a 190 pound guy in combat gear can and should be eligible for the draft. May I recommend against the SS troppers mobile infantry shower procedures for any women that fits that description.
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Posts: 1,948
Joined: Dec 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 2:58pm) in reply to 36crazyfists
I think there should be a time period equal to the length of the whole time men could have been drafted in which only women can be drafted.
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Niceguy
I will find you.
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Joined: Jul 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:02pm) in reply to ud2
Not to sound sexist but no.
Most women are not mentally stable enough or physically strong enough to be able to provide support in combat. Maybe logistical support but boots on the ground no.
No offense to any women who have served or are currently serving.
(though it is fucked up they want everything equal but would fight being eligible for the draft tooth and nail) -
Posts: 976
Joined: Apr 05Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:04pm) in reply to ud2
Israel's military did a study that showed that female soldiers were much more likely to stop to help wounded soldiers, severely slowing down advances.
Does this mean women shouldn't serve in the military? Of course not. I think women would make just as good commanders, fighter pilots, naval officers, etc., just maybe not front line infantry? -
Posts: 2,089
Joined: Jan 08Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:04pm) in reply to Jaybone2315
I agree. They are equal to us so they deserve to be drafted too.Originally Posted by Jaybone2315
bitches should of thought of this when they were fighting for equal rights.
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Mr Galt
sister-in-law's a ho
Posts: 9,095
Joined: Nov 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:08pm) in reply to sol160
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Posts: 23,112
Joined: Jan 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:08pm) in reply to El Burro
Yeah, our military should be women only, like the guy said a few posts up, just till tehy've been the only gender in the military as long as the men were, then make that shit co-ed w/ the fags.
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just making sure this sexism and low level of intelligence is documented...
Originally Posted by Niceguy
Not to sound sexist but no.
Most women are not mentally stable enough or physically strong enough to be able to provide support in combat. Maybe logistical support but boots on the ground no.
No offense to any women who have served or are currently serving.
(though it is fucked up they want everything equal but would fight being eligible for the draft tooth and nail) -
Posts: 36,709
Joined: Sep 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:15pm) in reply to 36crazyfists
how perfectly obama! "register for the draft which we won't have and wouldn't affect you in any way" which will show you that you have an obligation to the country??
hey, "sounds great"! lol! -
Mr Galt
sister-in-law's a ho
Posts: 9,095
Joined: Nov 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:17pm) in reply to Wein
Time for the recon patrol - galt and jones get out there and get me some intel. *Galt and jones walking toward objective* - bang. I'm hit, I'm hit. Galt = 210 pounds. Jones = 100 pounds. Hopefully Jones is the one shot, right? Sexism or reality sir? Or maybe woman can serve in infantry squads and won't go on recon patrols, seems fair and equal, right?Originally Posted by Wein
just making sure this sexism and low level of intelligence is documented...Originally Posted by Niceguy
Not to sound sexist but no.
Most women are not mentally stable enough or physically strong enough to be able to provide support in combat. Maybe logistical support but boots on the ground no.
No offense to any women who have served or are currently serving.
(though it is fucked up they want everything equal but would fight being eligible for the draft tooth and nail) -
Posts: 478
Joined: Oct 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:30pm) in reply to Mr Galt
There is absolutely no place for women in Combat Arms, and id venture to guess MOST of the people that disagree with that statement are NOT in any sort of military combat arms.
speaking of the Army, and I could care less if i sound sexist, but going from Infantry to Military Police, i at least have experience to talk. There OBV are some exceptions, but for the most part, except for logistical/clerical/medical/desk type jobs...women are an absolute hinderance in the Army.
Its supposed to be "equal" yet PT standards are REDICULOUSLY low, always have to have seperate sleeping quarters, if you go anywhere, u have to have 2 male soldiers with a female...its just fucking annoying. Women were just not built to do any sort of Army combat type stuff. -
Posts: 15,530
Joined: Apr 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:36pm) in reply to tekiller
thisOriginally Posted by tekiller
equal rights should mean equal responsibility so sure why the hell not?
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Mr Galt
sister-in-law's a ho
Posts: 9,095
Joined: Nov 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:38pm) in reply to 36crazyfists
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Posts: 478
Joined: Oct 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:39pm) in reply to Mr Galt
IMO u shouldnt be able to have an opinion unless you are actually in the military and are familiar with the ins and outs of the way it works.
its AMAZING how much civilians have NO idea about the military and how it actually is/works. -
galt for logistic concerns couldn't you seperate platoons by weight?
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Women can easily be involved in many aspects of the militairy. You're given a job based on your skills, right? For example: I wouldn't be a sniper because I can't see shit, but I sure as hell could be in the kitchen cooking for the troops. Am I still contributing to militairy operations? Absolutely. Maybe they'd want me fixing planes. Same thing
Originally Posted by Mr Galt
Time for the recon patrol - galt and jones get out there and get me some intel. *Galt and jones walking toward objective* - bang. I'm hit, I'm hit. Galt = 210 pounds. Jones = 100 pounds. Hopefully Jones is the one shot, right? Sexism or reality sir? Or maybe woman can serve in infantry squads and won't go on recon patrols, seems fair and equal, right?
95% of women would be better suited to be on the front line than me. I've had several heart operations. Should I be screaming bloody murder if a woman was in the line of fire and I wasn't because I'm a male? Sure, I'll probably drop dead pretty easily. That doesn't matter though, damn it! I'm a man! ROAR! -
Posts: 15,092
Joined: Feb 06Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:44pm) in reply to Guitardedemo
We're talking about a draft, in which people with NO idea about the military and how it actually works are drafted to work in said military.Originally Posted by Guitardedemo
IMO u shouldnt be able to have an opinion unless you are actually in the military and are familiar with the ins and outs of the way it works.
its AMAZING how much civilians have NO idea about the military and how it actually is/works.
So... -
Posts: 478
Joined: Oct 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:45pm) in reply to Wein
Tho a valid point, it just isnt valid at all. Anyone entering the military has to meet minimum/maximum height/weight standards, they have to pass a physical fitness test, and have to be pretty much in absolute perfect health to be allowed in. So every male, is going to be suited just fine to be in an infantry line unit.Originally Posted by Wein
Women can easily be involved in many aspects of the militairy. You're given a job based on your skills, right? For example: I wouldn't be a sniper because I can't see shit, but I sure as hell could be in the kitchen cooking for the troops. Am I still contributing to militairy operations? Absolutely. Maybe they'd want me fixing planes. Same thing
95% of women would be better suited to be on the front line than me. I've had several heart operations. Should I be screaming bloody murder if a woman was in the line of fire and I wasn't because I'm a male? -
pwnt, lol wd sheep
Originally Posted by marinersheep
We're talking about a draft, in which people with NO idea about the military and how it actually works are drafted to work in said military.Originally Posted by Guitardedemo
IMO u shouldnt be able to have an opinion unless you are actually in the military and are familiar with the ins and outs of the way it works.
its AMAZING how much civilians have NO idea about the military and how it actually is/works.
So... -
Mr Galt
sister-in-law's a ho
Posts: 9,095
Joined: Nov 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:47pm) in reply to Wein
My comments address this aspect of the article:Originally Posted by Wein
Women can easily be involved in many aspects of the militairy. You're given a job based on your skills, right? For example: I wouldn't be a sniper because I can't see shit, but I sure as hell could be in the kitchen cooking for the troops. Am I still contributing to militairy operations? Absolutely. Maybe they'd want me fixing planes. Same thingOriginally Posted by Mr Galt
Time for the recon patrol - galt and jones get out there and get me some intel. *Galt and jones walking toward objective* - bang. I'm hit, I'm hit. Galt = 210 pounds. Jones = 100 pounds. Hopefully Jones is the one shot, right? Sexism or reality sir? Or maybe woman can serve in infantry squads and won't go on recon patrols, seems fair and equal, right?
95% of women would be better suited to be on the front line than me. I've had several heart operations. Should I be screaming bloody murder if a woman was in the line of fire and I wasn't because I'm a male? Sure, I'll probably drop dead pretty easily. That doesn't matter though, damn it! I'm a man! ROAR!
Also, Mr. Obama would consider officially opening combat positions to women. Mr. McCain would not. -
Posts: 36,709
Joined: Sep 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:47pm) in reply to Wein
speaking of sexists!Originally Posted by Wein
A woman's place is in the tent cooking my dinner. -
Posts: 478
Joined: Oct 07Oct 15th, 2008 (10/15/2008 3:55pm) in reply to marinersheep
well, it had sort of gone on a tangit towards just women in the military in general.Originally Posted by marinersheep
We're talking about a draft, in which people with NO idea about the military and how it actually works are drafted to work in said military.Originally Posted by Guitardedemo
IMO u shouldnt be able to have an opinion unless you are actually in the military and are familiar with the ins and outs of the way it works.
its AMAZING how much civilians have NO idea about the military and how it actually is/works.
So...
I dont think women should be drafted, because i dont think ANYONE should be drafted. As a platoon leader, the last thing i want in my platoon are a bunch of 18-19yr old kids that DO NOT want to be there, and were forced to be there.
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