good thread, i love this show and still havent seen the final season yet, i plan on gettin the box set someday and ill watch for a few days in a row. but for me the least fav character is meadow, shes a drama queen and every episode she throws some kinda fit w her annoying whining, and this is a constant, she cries every show or somehow flips out. and idk if they ever will make a movie, i mean they would have to somehow make the movie where someone unfamiliar w the show could understand the movie and i dont think thats possible. and i didnt know tony bitch slapped leotardo i musta missed that.

clearly Tony's days are numbered, Carlo flipped and he is going away so maybe they took him out because they saw him as selfish enough to flip on everybody to save himself.

Loved the ending

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

You act like a freaking expert on the finale and you don't even know the final scene that was shown was edited down. Siiiiiiiiigh

What do you mean by this? Who edited down what?

looool go look it up. I'll bet you 10k if you don't believe me.

chase had a longer ending set up. it was going to show meadow coming through the door and then another quick shot of members only leaving the bathroom.

sidenote: the guy that played the members only jacket man was an italian guy who owned a pizzeria/

The only argument (besides that Tony was killed) that makes sense is that we were no longer privy to Tony's life aka the viewer is whacked. While the show did a good job of character development, the show, plain and simple, is about Tony. And at the end we as viewers are no longer granted access to Tony's life. The opening scene is Tony and Chris, who also happens to be my favorite character - followed by Paulie in 2nd, collecting on a debt.

We just sort of pop into Tony's life, we're not sure how we got here, but here we are. We understand that this is what life is like for Tony Soprano - not the boss yet, but an upper level mobster who is fearless. In the end we're able to understand how Tony's life has changed and he now lives everyday in fear even though he is the boss. He is not the same person as in the beginning. As such, the character arc for Tony has been completed and thus, our look into his life is now complete.

 

Originally Posted by Randers

As bubba said earlier we the viewer are never a part of the story. the viewer being 'whacked' doesn't fit the piece at all.

Tony is not feerless and has not changed much from the sociopath that he has been out of the womb.

I don't think we watched the same Sopranos.

In episode one carmela tells tony 'you're going to hell'

I think Tony is dead and am playing devil's advocate. However, we clearly didn't watch the same Sopranos if you believe the viewer was never apart of the story.

I believe he died but what do you mean the viewer was never apart of the story? The viewer is given an unadulterated view of the life of Tony Soprano plain and simple. As the viewer we privy Tony's highs and lows, his peyote high, his sadness after A.J.'s attempted suicide. And I can't remember ANY scene in the entire show that showed depicted Tony as 'not fearless' excep for the last scene. The college episode in the first season shows that Tony has no fear of being killed. He stalked and tracked the rat he stumbled upon and never once does the viewer believe that Tony is in danger. The war is effectively over with Phil getting killed since it was Phil's war. And the last scene is the only time I believe that we can feel Tony's fear and as such, I believe he was killed. However, to say that the viewer was never apart of the story is plain wrong.

 

Originally Posted by shighley3205

However, to say that the viewer was never apart of the story is plain wrong.

To think the writers 'whacked the viewer' is to insinuate we were part of the story.

We were givin an 'unadulterated view' into the world, but we were never a part of it.

To think the viewer was ever written into the story is just plain wrong.

-------------------
tony is in constant fear of fbi persecution, New York's opinion on matters, do his capo's think he's competent, the mom issues, his own self loathing, is he a good father, a good man, are terrorist going to attack, etc etcetc. The guy has panic attacks repeatedly. To think that Tony is fearless is just plain wrong.

Tony tracks the rat down for his own well-being. When a rat is dead, there is no more danger. He is certainly fearless in pursuit of his own survival.

As for the final scene there has been a whirlwind of shit going down and with the recent hit on Leotardo there are no sure things as far as Tony's life goes.

I do not believe Tony was killed in a diner at the end. I do believe that scene juxtaposed with the hopeless, destroyed, senile Uncle Junior is supposed to create the final point of paranoia, fear and utter certainty that the life of a mob boss living as a family man. It is certain that Tony's demise will not be pretty (death, jail, etc.) It all ends the same way. That to me is the point of the last scene. It's utter suspect to assume he was killed by a random dude going to take a leak in the diner, but the mere inclusion of that scene puts the paranoia and uncertainty into the viewer at the final climax of the show. That's Tony's life after all the murders, power players, fed avoidances, wars won, wars avoided, etc. Tony's downfall is as certain as every other character in the show or in past mob shows. It's all the same.

Finally finished the series last night, and its obviously an excellent TV series that I will never forget and look forward to hopefully watching again at some point in the future. I think I would notice a lot of things I didn't the first time through, now that I know all of the characters much better.

As for the ending, I definitely interpreted it that Tony got whacked by the guy that they deliberately showed going in to the bathroom. As others have said, the last scene is from Tony's point of view and the drastic cut to black, in addition to the earlier flashback to his conversation with Bobby on the lake is enough to convince me that he got clipped.

Totally agree with most of Bubba's points - mainly about AJ. For the longest time I couldn't figure out who I thought the most despicable character in the series was, AJ or Janice... by the end it was clearly AJ. I guess he mainly exists in the show to illustrate their failure as parents. Definitely ironic how they always wanted him to be motivated, to work hard, to have discipline -- then the moment he makes up his mind to join the military and do something with his life they push him back in to the life they always said that they wanted him to leave behind... buying him a new car, getting him the BS movie job, future club investment... etc. Sweet suicide attempt bro.

Now for the big question.... What happened to the Russian guy that Chris and Paulie tried to kill, and then let escape in to the woods during that snow storm? I thought that entire episode was pretty hilarious, but never understood how they never found him nor did he come back to try and get them at some point.

Also, nice Mangenius cameooo

 

Originally Posted by MilBestDrnkr

You will absolutely pick up more the second time through. As for the Russian, I always interpreted it as he ended up dying in the woods.

he drove off in paulies in car, so he survived.

I believe Tony survived the diner 100%.

 

Originally Posted by MilBestDrnkr

He never drove off in Paulie's car. And how can so many people believe that Tony doesn't get killed at the end? I don't get it.

so when chris and paulie arrived back at the place they parked their car and it was gone, Im supposed to believe some random car thief stole it?

:theres evidence for both sides if Tony was killed or not. I will agree theres more evidence supporting he died in that diner but I dont agree with that. Sorry

 

Originally Posted by BubbaKGB

When you're '100%' on one side of a very debatable topic, it's usually better to provide some semblance of a thought process as to why you believe what you believe, as opposed to just stating it as fact. That could be what he's having trouble with.

i think that last scene was just something to juggle people brains over an outcome. The lyrics in the final song point towards him surviving. Im going with that and the fact Tony had no longer had enemies. NY made a peace treaty with Tony and allowed him to hit Phil if he wants to. So theres a thought process DH

im in this thread already. gave some other views as well. Ive watched the whole show 10 times through. Sorrry, I believe he didnt die in that diner. Its a reminder tony can be in danger any second from any direction. Thats why the camera shots induce paranoia. And no i dont think chase would rewrite an assassination like godfather I did. geez.

 

Originally Posted by BubbaKGB

or that NY wouldn't be capable of a twisted double-cross, than you didn't watch the same show I did.

NY never double crossed anyone in the show. word was their word. they did punish jersey over disagreements in business but lol at double cross. we def didnt watch the same show. watch it again movie pro

Johnny Sac was my favorite character. The scene with him and Ginny when he catches her eating her candy stash and then forgives her was one of my top five of the show. Another favorite was the scene with Tony, Sil and Bobby at the table pretending to duke it out symbolizing their war with NY.