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  1.  
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    Mir only has 13 takedowns in the last 5 years, but you're right the guy who won the Nevada State Wrestling Championship has no chance of taking down a guy that has zero competitive wrestling experience.

    You keep talking about what great TDD Junior has, but against who? The only good wrestler he has fought is Cain, and he stopped 1 td that fight.

    what are you talking about?

    ftr, if that fight actually happened I would be rooting for Junior because he's an awesome guy and Mir is a typical Vegas douche imo

    So yes, I believe Mir will beat Junior just like Diaz will beat GSP and Rashad could* beat Jones

    Do you really think it's relevant what Mir did 10 years ago in college? He has never exhibited good wrestling skills in the UFC, NEVER. So who fucking cares what his credentials are, they obviously didn't translate well to MMA. 13 takedowns in his whole career for a guy who has always had WAYYYYYYYY better BJJ than striking tells you something. He's either a horrible gameplanner or he's not very good at taking people down, either way he's absolutely fucked against JDS.

    Roy Nelson and Shane Carwin both have better takedowns than Mir and neither came close to taking JDS down.

    I mean it'd be one thing to bring up his lack of TDD experience if we were talking about a legit wrestler, but we're talking about frank fucking mir, it's not even an issue.

     
    Originally Posted by TiltinShoes View Post

    The only thing I agree with about that post is I don't know why I'm supposed to believe that JDS can handle himself on the mat. I've never even seen it tested.

    Cuz he's been training for years with the Nogeura brothers, the same ppl who turned anderson into questionable on the ground to a legit badass. True though that he's never been tested really in the UFC, would love to see that.
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  2. it's amazing that we see the same information and come to completely different conclusions on nearly every single MMA thread in OT
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  3.  
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    it's amazing that I see the same information and come to completely ridiculous conclusions on nearly every single MMA thread in OT

    fyp
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  4.  
    Originally Posted by kiro15 View Post

    fyp

    lol

    awesome contribution
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  5. voorh33s, I'd like to see your predictions for this coming event. As the most outspoken in these threads you sure don't make any concrete predictions. I'd like to see em, not just the main event either.
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  6.  
    Originally Posted by StlngMyChps View Post

    voorh33s, I'd like to see your predictions for this coming event. As the most outspoken in these threads you sure don't make any concrete predictions. I'd like to see em, not just the main event either.

    I just like to argue MMA, it's fun. For all I know, Mir could come in and uppercut KO JDS in 30 seconds.

    Usually when I make an OP for an event I post my picks, but I don't think they mean that much, MMA is too unpredictable so it's just for fun.

    Everyone on the left. Bocek arguably beat bendo a year ago, close fight and he's really underrated. Hominick fight is a toss up, but he should win. I'm a torres nutthugger but he could be in trouble here. If he keeps treating his head like a starving baby bird hiding it at all costs trying to win a boring point fighting decision, he could be in trouble. Ben rothwell is horrible, idk how he's still in the UFC. Schaub is not a world beater but he should handle him easily. Rory is an up and coming stud that ppl think will be a belt contender very shortly, idk much about che mills.

    When JJ embarrasses Rashad Evans this weekend, he'll firmly cement his spot as the P4P #1 fighter in the world and already an all-time great at the age of 24 and not even in his prime, incredible. There won't be any denying it anymore, he already has the best year in mma history under his belt and he's basically doing what anderson is doing, except against much better fighters.

    It's okay with thinking Rashad will win (maybe he'll be able to get takedowns everyone round on a guy that's never been on his back and hold him there for 25 minutes, chael almost did it, maybe rashad can idk) , but the only people who WANT Rashad to win are haters, people who can't standing winning. They can't stand the greatness that is JJ so they want him to fail. They'll convince themselves that he's cocky when he's more humble than 99% of all fighters, or convince themselves that he's a tool cuz he ratted someone out for weed 20 years ago, but we know they are just lying to themselves.
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  7.  
    Originally Posted by voorh33s View Post

    I just like to argue MMA, it's fun. For all I know, Mir could come in and uppercut KO JDS in 30 seconds.

    Usually when I make an OP for an event I post my picks, but I don't think they mean that much, MMA is too unpredictable so it's just for fun.


    Everyone on the left. Bocek arguably beat bendo a year ago, close fight and he's really underrated. Hominick fight is a toss up, but he should win. I'm a torres nutthugger but he could be in trouble here. If he keeps treating his head like a starving baby bird hiding it at all costs trying to win a boring point fighting decision, he could be in trouble. Ben rothwell is horrible, idk how he's still in the UFC. Schaub is not a world beater but he should handle him easily. Rory is an up and coming stud that ppl think will be a belt contender very shortly, idk much about che mills.

    When JJ embarrasses Rashad Evans this weekend, he'll firmly cement his spot as the P4P #1 fighter in the world and already an all-time great at the age of 24 and not even in his prime, incredible. There won't be any denying it anymore, he already has the best year in mma history under his belt and he's basically doing what anderson is doing, except against much better fighters.

    It's okay with thinking Rashad will win (maybe he'll be able to get takedowns everyone round on a guy that's never been on his back and hold him there for 25 minutes, chael almost did it, maybe rashad can idk) , but the only people who WANT Rashad to win are haters, people who can't standing winning. They can't stand the greatness that is JJ so they want him to fail. They'll convince themselves that he's cocky when he's more humble than 99% of all fighters, or convince themselves that he's a tool cuz he ratted someone out for weed 20 years ago, but we know they are just lying to themselves.

    sfthis.

    debating mma is my favorite part of OT
    Edited By: MustbeMoore Apr 20th, 2012 at 01:29 AM
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  8.  
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    sfthis.

    debating mma is my favorite part of OT

    Such ridiculousness u are spewing in this thread. "So yes, I believe Mir will beat Junior just like Diaz will beat GSP and Rashad could* beat Jones" this is by far the dumbest thing though. Mir will get KOed, Diaz will get dominated and decisioned, Jones will dominate rashad. I'll put up to 1k on JDS vs Mir and GSP vs Diaz if you're interested. U don't want the odds right considering they "will" win.
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  9. I've been watching MMA for a long tme, and I always see people come along that are going to "revolutionize" the sport and people say are pretty much unbeatable (Brock, Lyoto, B.J., Anderson, GSP, Chuck, Cain, Mousasi) and all of them but anderson (and GSP; post embarrasing serra fight) has fallen. So I'm not going to fall in the same trap i have in the past and say that JBJ is unbeatable and that Rashad has no chance. I believe that Rashad getting 5-1 is a good pick. I think if this fight happens 10 times, JBJ maybe wins 6. But Rashad obviously has KO power and may be stronger than JBJ so if Rashad can take it ot the ground early in every round, or land a big right hand he certainly can win this fight.
     
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  10.  
    Originally Posted by lance814 View Post

    Such ridiculousness u are spewing in this thread. "So yes, I believe Mir will beat Junior just like Diaz will beat GSP and Rashad could* beat Jones" this is by far the dumbest thing though. Mir will get KOed, Diaz will get dominated and decisioned, Jones will dominate rashad. I'll put up to 1k on JDS vs Mir and GSP vs Diaz if you're interested. U don't want the odds right considering they "will" win.


    I'll take the Diaz bet if George's pussy ass ever agrees to fight him.
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  11.  
    Originally Posted by pokerscrub1 View Post

    I've been watching MMA for a long tme, and I always see people come along that are going to "revolutionize" the sport and people say are pretty much unbeatable (Brock, Lyoto, B.J., Anderson, GSP, Chuck, Cain, Mousasi) and all of them but anderson (and GSP; post embarrasing serra fight) has fallen. So I'm not going to fall in the same trap i have in the past and say that JBJ is unbeatable and that Rashad has no chance. I believe that Rashad getting 5-1 is a good pick. I think if this fight happens 10 times, JBJ maybe wins 6. But Rashad obviously has KO power and may be stronger than JBJ so if Rashad can take it ot the ground early in every round, or land a big right hand he certainly can win this fight.

    That's whats great about MMA, everyone has a punchers chance in any given fight. With that said, the only people on your list that i thought were unbeatable were Silva and GSP. Yes, GSP shit the bed against Sierra, but if that fight happens 8 more times he goes 8-0. Jones by no means is unbeatable, but no one in LHW will have more than a punchers chance against him and the odds will reflect that. Rashad doesn't beat Jones 40% of the time, maybe 10%. His wrestling is on par with Matt Hamill and Ryan Bader (maybe a little better than Bader), and they couldn't take Bones down. There's a reason Jones is such a huge favorite. His reach and strength are filthy.

     
    Originally Posted by perma_tilt View Post

    I'll take the Diaz bet if George's pussy ass ever agrees to fight him.

    Booked, I'm not even a huge GSP fan, I just respect his skill and I've never bet on the UFC.
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  12.  
    Originally Posted by lance814 View Post

    That's whats great about MMA, everyone has a punchers chance in any given fight. With that said, the only people on your list that i thought were unbeatable were Silva and GSP. Yes, GSP shit the bed against Sierra, but if that fight happens 8 more times he goes 8-0. Jones by no means is unbeatable, but no one in LHW will have more than a punchers chance against him and the odds will reflect that. Rashad doesn't beat Jones 40% of the time, maybe 10%. His wrestling is on par with Matt Hamill and Ryan Bader (maybe a little better than Bader), and they couldn't take Bones down. There's a reason Jones is such a huge favorite. His reach and strength are filthy.



    Booked, I'm not even a huge GSP fan, I just respect his skill and I've never bet on the UFC.

    This is a perfect example of how little you know what you're talking about:
    -Evans was a community college wrestler
    -Bader was an All-American at ASU
    -Hamill won tons in NCAA Div III and the Deaf Olympics

    There is simply no way that you can be serious about Evans being anywhere close to Bader in wrestling. Bader is lightyears ahead of Evans on the mat. And the reasoning that Diaz and Evans will lose is because they will get "dominated"? Really astute breakdown of why those fighters will lose their hypothetical fights.

    -Diaz is a better boxer and has a much higher jiu-juitsu game, not to mention he will be the first one to push the pace on George. George won't be able to stand there a pick Nick apart like he has done to his last few fighters, and if George goes to the ground, Nick will be attacking George the entire time instead of trying to just get up. Holding fighters down when they are trying to get up is way different than dealing with someone trying to submit you from the guard.

    -Evans can win the fight because he is a better wrestler than Jones and is strong enough to hold JBJ down and GnP to a win. Also, he is not afraid of getting hit by Jones.

    "Jones is favorite because is strength if "filthy"". wtf are you talking about? Jones's biggest critique by most people is his lack of power. Why are you making 1K bets? Just stop.

    ftr, I'm not saying Evan will win. I'm saying he has a much better chance than most people are giving him. I am saying that Diaz will beat GSP and Mir will beat JDS.
    Edited By: MustbeMoore Apr 20th, 2012 at 03:26 PM
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  13. Your dumb opinion:
     
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    This is a perfect example of how little you know what you're talking about:
    -Evans was a community college wrestler
    -Bader was an All-American at ASU
    -Hamill won tons in NCAA Div III and the Deaf Olympics

    There is simply no way that you can be serious about Evans being anywhere close to Bader in wrestling. Bader is lightyears ahead of Evans on the mat. And the reasoning that Diaz and Evans will lose is because they will get "dominated"? Really astute breakdown of why those fighters will lose their hypothetical fights.


    -Diaz is a better boxer and has a much higher jiu-juitsu game, not to mention he will be the first one to push the pace on George. George won't be able to stand there a pick Nick apart like he has done to his last few fighters, and if George goes to the ground, Nick will be attacking George the entire time instead of trying to just get up. Holding fighters down when they are trying to get up is way different than dealing with someone trying to submit you from the guard.

    -Evans can win the fight because he is a better wrestler than Jones and is strong enough to hold JBJ down and GnP to a win. Also, he is not afraid of getting hit by Jones.

    "Jones is favorite because is strength if "filthy"". wtf are you talking about? Jones's biggest critique by most people is his lack of power. Why are you making 1K bets? Just stop.

    ftr, I'm not saying Evan will win. I'm saying he has a much better chance than most people are giving him. I am saying that Diaz will beat GSP and Mir will beat JDS.

    My prediction:
    I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Bones will absolutely ragdoll Rashad with a crazy throw, and he'll do it more than once. In exchange for my prediction, if I am correct, I want you to come back here and admit that you were completely wrong.

    Analysis:
    Pure wrestling is SO different from MMA wrestling. MMA wrestling is all about setups, and, more importantly, transitions. If you can hit a takedown when your opponent is coming in for a strike, or fake a strike and hit a takedown when your opponent is blocking/countering, you will get the takedown. In wrestling, it's much more strength based and focused on weight transfer. Completely different skillsets, and that is why Rashad is better at MMA wrestling than Hamill or Bader. All that said, Jones sets up his takedowns from the clinch, which he is able to do because of his long limbs, and insane understanding of leverage that allow him to throw high-level judo throws with such success. And why he will, as I say, "toss Rashad around like a ragdoll."
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  14. Geoff. You make your point how Bader and Hamill are way better wrestlers then Evans, then you say Evans can win the fight because he is a superior wrestler to Jones. But if Bader and Hamill are better wrestlers then Evans why didn't they out wrestle and out power Jones?
     
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  15.  
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    This is a perfect example of how little you know what you're talking about:
    -Evans was a community college wrestler
    -Bader was an All-American at ASU
    -Hamill won tons in NCAA Div III and the Deaf Olympics

    There is simply no way that you can be serious about Evans being anywhere close to Bader in wrestling. Bader is lightyears ahead of Evans on the mat. And the reasoning that Diaz and Evans will lose is because they will get "dominated"? Really astute breakdown of why those fighters will lose their hypothetical fights.

    -Diaz is a better boxer and has a much higher jiu-juitsu game, not to mention he will be the first one to push the pace on George. George won't be able to stand there a pick Nick apart like he has done to his last few fighters, and if George goes to the ground, Nick will be attacking George the entire time instead of trying to just get up. Holding fighters down when they are trying to get up is way different than dealing with someone trying to submit you from the guard.

    -Evans can win the fight because he is a better wrestler than Jones and is strong enough to hold JBJ down and GnP to a win. Also, he is not afraid of getting hit by Jones.

    "Jones is favorite because is strength if "filthy"". wtf are you talking about? Jones's biggest critique by most people is his lack of power. Why are you making 1K bets? Just stop.

    ftr, I'm not saying Evan will win. I'm saying he has a much better chance than most people are giving him. I am saying that Diaz will beat GSP and Mir will beat JDS.

    Wrestling in a wrestling match translates to wrestling in the UFC, Please. It's all about setting up your takedowns and that is what Evans is good at.

    First you say Bader is lightyears ahead of evans on the mat, then you say Evans is strong enough to hold JBJ down b/c he is a better wrestler than Jones, yet Bader couldn't even take him down. UFC website, "Jones takedown defense 100%". Yep, Rashad will get him down all 5 rounds and hold him down.

    http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Jon-Jones

    GSP will take Diaz down at will (world class wrestler and exceptional at setting up takedowns) and granted Diaz is great off his back will not be able to handle GSP's weight on top of him for 5 rounds. GSP wins a decision 50-45.

    Strength and power are different. No one said he is going to knock someone out with 1 punch, but u cannot argue he doesn't have strength, considering he takes his opponents practically when he wants to and hasn't been taken to the ground yet.

    My bet was to show how confident I am in GSP and JDS winning the fights. I've never bet on the UFC in my life, but you saying the will lose made me want to take your money.

    Mir couldn't handle Carwin or Brock's striking, but he will be able handle a man he will have a lot of trouble taking down. Please explain to me how u think Mir can win this fight?

    I know your post was designed to try to make me look stupid, yet in all the stupidity you contradicted yourself, failed to realize the difference between wrestling in MMA and Wrestling in a Wrestling Match, and failed to realize the difference between strength and (punching) power.

    Great Posts though, you really seem educated on the subject.
    Edited By: lance814 Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:41 PM
    Reason: didn't see previous post from ccm and pharreal
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  17.  
    Originally Posted by ccm View Post

    Your dumb opinion:


    My prediction:
    I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Bones will absolutely ragdoll Rashad with a crazy throw, and he'll do it more than once. In exchange for my prediction, if I am correct, I want you to come back here and admit that you were completely wrong. When did I say this wouldn't happen? Just because I think Rashad is a better wrestler than Jones (but not as good as Bader) has little to do with Jones getting a takedown on Rashad. Just because someone is a better striker does that mean they will never get hit?

    Analysis:
    Pure wrestling is SO different from MMA wrestling. MMA wrestling is all about setups, and, more importantly, transitions. If you can hit a takedown when your opponent is coming in for a strike, or fake a strike and hit a takedown when your opponent is blocking/countering, you will get the takedown. In wrestling, it's much more strength based and focused on weight transfer. Completely different skillsets, and that is why Rashad is better at MMA wrestling than Hamill or Bader. All that said, Jones sets up his takedowns from the clinch, which he is able to do because of his long limbs, and insane understanding of leverage that allow him to throw high-level judo throws with such success. And why he will, as I say, "toss Rashad around like a ragdoll."

    There is a lot of truth to what you say and I actually looked up the fightmetric stats on their wrestling. Evans avg 4.14 td's/15 minutes, Bader is 3.45, and Hamill 2.64. The numbers can't lie. That being said, I don't think that Jones is going to toss Rashad around like a ragdoll because he will not want to get close to Rashad.

     
    Originally Posted by Phareal15 View Post

    Geoff. You make your point how Bader and Hamill are way better wrestlers then Evans, then you say Evans can win the fight because he is a superior wrestler to Jones. But if Bader and Hamill are better wrestlers then Evans why didn't they out wrestle and out power Jones?

    they were too worried about Jones's striking.
    So since Evans is the better wrestler than Bader/Hamill why is it relevant that Bader/Hamill couldn't get Bones down?
     
    Originally Posted by lance814 View Post

    Wrestling in a wrestling match translates to wrestling in the UFC, Please. It's all about setting up your takedowns and that is what Evans is good at.

    First you say Bader is lightyears ahead of evans on the mat, then you say Evans is strong enough to hold JBJ down b/c he is a better wrestler than Jones, yet Bader couldn't even take him down. UFC website, "Jones takedown defense 100%". Yep, Rashad will get him down all 5 rounds and hold him down.

    http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Jon-Jones

    GSP will take Diaz down at will (world class wrestler and exceptional at setting up takedowns) and granted Diaz is great off his back will not be able to handle GSP's weight on top of him for 5 rounds. GSP wins a decision 50-45.

    Strength and power are different. No one said he is going to knock someone out with 1 punch, but u cannot argue he doesn't have strength, considering he takes his opponents practically when he wants to and hasn't been taken to the ground yet.

    My bet was to show how confident I am in GSP and JDS winning the fights. I've never bet on the UFC in my life, but you saying the will lose made me want to take your money.lol

    Mir couldn't handle Carwin or Brock's striking, but he will be able handle a man he will have a lot of trouble taking down. Please explain to me how u think Mir can win this fight? submission

    I know your post was designed to try to make me look stupid, yet in all the stupidity you contradicted yourself, failed to realize the difference between wrestling in MMA and Wrestling in a Wrestling Match, and failed to realize the difference between strength and (punching) power.you said Bones has "filthy" strength. I disagreed

    Great Posts though, you really seem educated on the subject.

    looking forward to tomorrow night...

    oh yea and:


    it's 4/20 ffs...
    Edited By: MustbeMoore Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:41 PM
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  18. WeighIns live on fueltv in 1 hour.
     
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  19. It's 4.20. Nobody's getting mad, we're just all a a liitle sleepy
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  20. Mir has a weak chin and no heart. He will get rocked by a JDS jab. His only shot is to get it to the ground and pulling a sub. I don't see JDS taking him down, or Mir being able to take him down. JDS by KTFO.

    Diaz has a puchers chance against GSP sure but he does terrible against fighters who execute game plans well. GSP wont get pushed into the fence and eat punches. This is about the only way Diaz wins fights. If they don't stand in front of him he has fits. People want to say that Diaz will push GSP's cardio.....I don't see how. Diaz lacks the strength and technique to effectively wear GSP down. Diaz wears other fighters down because they allow themselves to be backed into the fence and eat a barrage of punches. I just don't see him being able to do that at all to GSP.
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  21. Evans wrestled in the Big 10 for MSU I believe...def not community college, that's JJ you're thinking of. Doesn't matter tho cuz JJ's MMA wrestling is insane. He's ragdolling ppl who supposedly have great wrestling (bader, vlad, hammil, rampage, lyoto (tdd from sumo))

     
    Originally Posted by perma_tilt View Post

    I'll take the Diaz bet if George's pussy ass ever agrees to fight him.

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  22.  
    Originally Posted by perma_tilt View Post

    ok bet booked

    http://www.mmamania.com/2012/4/20/29...ior-dos-santos

    I thought u wanted to bet on GSP vs Diaz. U taking Mir?
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  23.  
    Originally Posted by lance814 View Post

    I thought u wanted to bet on GSP vs Diaz. U taking Mir?


    Lance thats a different bet elsewhere in this thread I made a bet if this fight takes place I got JDS and he has Mir lol.

     
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    awesome man, have fun


    JBJ win by KO? must be a level


    deal then, 10 bucks on Tilt


    yes absolutely, valid point.


    myheadissofulloffuck.gif

    quoted..
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  24. Dana Whites Twitter:
    "Taking off to Atlanta!!!! May 26 th is now Mir vs JDS for the HW title in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand."

    Sportsbook has it:
    JDS -500
    Mir +300
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  26. I know this is a contrarian pick for jones vs evans but I feel pretty confident that the black guy is going to win.
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  27.  
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  28.  
    Originally Posted by kidrockin View Post

    This guy could whip Mir

    http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81350844/

    That kids strength is pretty sick for his size, but if you are the parents of that kid u could at least not make him seem like a complete douche. I mean the Mohawk and his walk are a bit ridiculous.
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  29. the three fight that seem to be the popular discussion in this thread all seem pretty cut and dried to me. It'd be a very significant upset if GSP, JDS or JJ lost, and that's my order of biggest upset to least surprising upset. I like an underdog as much as the next guy, but I try to be realistic.
     
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