I think this is a big mistake. Thoughts? Right now most of America does not give two sheeoootts about Gitmo. Let work on the economy before we worry about the rights of known enemies of the US.

<H2>Obama closing Guantanamo as he reshapes US policy </H2>
<SPAN class=byline>By PHILIP ELLIOTT </SPAN>
<SPAN class=source>Associated Press Writer</SPAN>
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<SPAN class=dateline>WASHINGTON —</SPAN> President Barack Obama moved quickly to undo a contentious Bush administration national security program Thursday, ordering Guantanamo closed within a year and welcoming Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton to help forge a new foreign policy strategy.

"We intend to win this fight, we are going to win it on our terms," Obama said of pursuing the campaign against global terrorism.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=5 width=170 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=enhance> (enlarge photo)
An Iraqi man walks past newspapers featuring front page coverage of U.S. President Barack Obama in Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, Jan. 22, 2009. Across this war-shattered country, many Iraqis watched the transfer of power in Washington on Arab satellite television stations. Many of them expressed hope that the departure of the president who launched the Iraq war in 2003 would speed the return of peace. (AP Photo/Hadi Mizban)

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On his second full day in office, Obama said that by ordering the shutdown of the Cuban prison within a year, he hoped to send a message that the U.S. would pursue the struggle against violence and terrorism vigilantly, effectively and "in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals."

He said his administration would not "continue with a false choice between our safety and our ideals," an express slap at policies pursued by his predecessor, former President George W. Bush.

"It is precisely our ideals which give us the strength and moral high ground to deal with the unthinking violence that we see emanating from terrorism organizations around the world," Obama said.

The president, now in his second full day in office, also was ready to trumpet Hillary Rodham Clinton's installation as secretary of state while turning to veteran dealmaker George Mitchell to guide the new administration through the Mideast thicket.

Reinforcing Obama's steps to quickly put his own stamp on U.S. foreign and defense policies, Retired Adm. Dennis Blair, who will oversee all intelligence agencies, told a Senate confirmation hearing that Guantanamo must be closed because it is "a damaging symbol to the world."

Blair told the Senate Intelligence Committee that one of his main responsibilities will be rebuilding the American people's trust in the nation's intelligence agencies.

"The intelligence agencies of the United States must respect the privacy and civil liberties of the American people, and they must adhere to the rule of law," Blair said.

Blair will oversee the CIA, National Security Agency and other U.S. intelligence agencies as director of national intelligence.

Obama's central order would close the much-maligned U.S. prison camp within a year, a frequent campaign promise of Obama's. The administration already has suspended trials for terrorist suspects at Guantanamo for 120 days pending a review of the military tribunals.

"This is me following through on not just a commitment I made during the campaign, but I think an understanding that dates back to our founding fathers, that we are willing to observe core standards of conduct, not just when it's easy, but also when it's hard," Obama said.

In other actions, Obama set up a task force that would have 30 days to recommend policies on handling terror suspects who are detained in the future and where Guantanamo detainees should be housed once it has closed.

Among other things, he signed an order requiring all U.S. personnel to follow the U.S. Army Field Manual while interrogating detainees and told the Justice Department to review the case of Qatar native Ali al-Marri, who is the only enemy combatant currently being held on U.S. soil.

U.S. foreign policy in the new administration will be overseen by four former senators — Obama and Clinton and Vice President Joe Biden, who served together until after this year's election, and Mitchell, who served much earlier as Senate majority leader.

Obama was going to the State Department later Thursday to join Clinton in addressing diplomats there and — very likely — setting forth major elements of the administration's emerging national security strategy.

The State Department visit also could be the setting for Obama to announces the appointment of Mitchell, the former Senate Democratic leader, as his special envoy to the region.

Mitchell, credited with arranging a peace accord in Northern Ireland, played the special envoy role for former President Bill Clinton and has handled other delicate diplomatic assignments since leaving the Senate in 1995. The White House has been preparing an announcement of the new mission for Mitchell, said diplomatic officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the plans publicly.

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On his second full day in office, Obama said that by ordering the shutdown of the Cuban prison within a year, he hoped to send a message that the U.S. would pursue the struggle against violence and terrorism vigilantly, effectively and "in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals."

im not so sure I understand your "message" Mr. Pres.

You ask them to sit down and nicely ask them to stop.

If I can't go to Cuba why should the terrorists be allowed?

 

Originally Posted by Neeek

 

Originally Posted by Unclebuck

Let work on the economy before we worry about the rights of known enemies of the US.

if they are known enemies of the US, it should be pretty easy to convict them of something, yeah?

if you cant convict them of anything, how do you know they are enemies?

they are brown, that's why....
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Originally Posted by Willywoo

"in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals."

I wish he would define this, afterall it seems to be the meat of the issue. It is easy to say, "No, we are doing it wrong," but much more difficult to say what exactly it is we should eb doing with these people.

most of the talk has been about shipping them to other countries (switzerland being one of the countries mentioned). not sure that solves the problem, but merely takes some of the blame off of us for now. consistent with our values would be either convicting them of something or releasing them to their home countries. Sure, some crazy fucks will be released, but I don't really see anything else that can be done with such a clusterfuck. obvoiusly only 3 options, and this is the only viable one.

the bottom line is, we cant be a real life minority report. either they did something or they didnt. just because we "know" they are terrorists doesnt mean we can just put them in a box without them having done anything.

along the same lines, there are thousands of detainess in Iraq. as we turn control over to Iraq, I'm pretty sure they have said it is illegal for them to hold these detainess (like it is here, but we ignore). the US has asked them to just keep holding them, but a big question is what they will actually end up doing. it along the same lines as gitmo (X60 for the number of detainees), just less talked about.

 

Originally Posted by jetsfan

 

Originally Posted by Unclebuck

 

Originally Posted by jetsfan

Perhaps you missed the previous post, which still happens to be on page one and has 80+ replies already.

Really. Cause I did not see one titled Closing of Gitmo? Thoughts on Gitmo from yesterday is there. Whats your point Jet?

LMAO. MY POINT????? Perhaps the title "what do you feel about Guantanamo Bay" is not precise enough for you. My point is your questions is OBVIOUSLY covered in that thread. I was trying to be respectful in my first reply. You usually get much worse from others. If you did not understand my first point, i am wasting my time here. Good day, sir.

So you are upset I opened a new thread with a subject that has been covered before? Even though you knew when you clicked on it what it was about? I think I hear the deep fryer buzzer going off sir. Time for you to get back to work.

 

Originally Posted by 36crazyfists

If I can't go to Cuba why should the terrorists be allowed?

i thought communism was close enough to terrA to file this under "people who dont like us very much."

now back to the other mother fucking THREAD.

Great job Mr. President! Doing a bang up job right off the bat!

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

While you identify the issue of what to do with these people, it appears that you are sucked into to Obama fallacy, which to me is Obama leaving the solution open ended with nice words like "values" and "ideals" and then have people who support him come up with their own ideas as to what those words mean so it all appears that there are no inconsistencies with his thoughts and everyone who supports him.

How about we articulate a solution? Pick a choice. This is where the rubber meets the road when one is President.

I think it is important that he has recognized there is a problem and vowed to fix it. Agreed, its time for a solution. I would like to see how he fixes it before I comment on the job he did, but at least he has recognized the gigantic problem and vowed to fix it, instead of just saying well its too hard to fix, so lets continue to do something that goes against everything america stands for.

what is wrong with the people that support him coming up with the idea? as long as a valid solution is reached (instead of just hiding them from the public eye), then it doesn't matter where it came from.

 

Originally Posted by Neeek

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

While you identify the issue of what to do with these people, it appears that you are sucked into to Obama fallacy, which to me is Obama leaving the solution open ended with nice words like "values" and "ideals" and then have people who support him come up with their own ideas as to what those words mean so it all appears that there are no inconsistencies with his thoughts and everyone who supports him.

How about we articulate a solution? Pick a choice. This is where the rubber meets the road when one is President.

I think it is important that he has recognized there is a problem and vowed to fix it. Agreed, its time for a solution. I would like to see how he fixes it before I comment on the job he did, but at least he has recognized the gigantic problem and vowed to fix it, instead of just saying well its too hard to fix, so lets continue to do something that goes against everything america stands for.

what is wrong with the people that support him coming up with the idea? as long as a valid solution is reached (instead of just hiding them from the public eye), then it doesn't matter where it came from.

Where I come from, there is a decision making process. Pay special attention to numbers 4,5, and 6.

1. Recognize And Define The Problem

2. Gather Facts And Make Assumptions

3. Define End States And Establish Criteria

4. Develop Possible Solutions

5. Analyze And Compare Possible Solutions

6. Select And Implement Solution


7. Analyze Solution For Effectiveness

I think most people were well aware of Bush's solution. There were many who disliked it and therefore perceived it to be a problem.

Why has Obama not been grilled by the media as to what his solution is? Isn't that something that is important? This is my whole point. His solution thus far is to deal with them consistent with our values and ideals. What does that mean? Do they get full protection of the Constitution? The Geneva Convention? As soldiers? As spies?

We may need to create a separate status for them and perhaps enter into a Treaty or Convention with other countries as to how terrorists will be treated much as we did with the Geneva Convention.

The political problem is that when the president makes a decision he will necessarily alienate many people, especially when there are many potential solutions. To this point Obama has not had to make any decisions and has therefore not alienated anyone. At some point though he is going to have to make a decision. When he does, we will see how well his his supporters stick together. Ditto for the economy.

The political problem is that when the president makes a decision he will necessarily alienate many people, especially when there are many potential solutions. To this point Obama has not had to make any decisions and has therefore not alienated anyone. At some point though he is going to have to make a decision. When he does, we will see how well his his supporters stick together. Ditto for the economy.

U mean he can't vote PRESENT Forever? so rigged imo

almost everyone posting in this thread makes me sad...