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Win NIT vs Lose 1st round in NCAA Tourney

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  1. ImaBustYou ImaBustYou is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:21pm)

    What is more prestigious: winning the NIT tournament or a 1st round loss in the NCAA Tournament?

    Personally I would rather be on a team that lost in the 1st round of the NCAA's than winning the NIT.
  2. Luho Luho is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:24pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    AS A PLAYER, if I were still in my D-1 form and playing for UCONN, I would rather win the NIT

    AS A FAN, if I were a UCONN fan, I would rather see them make the tourney (and would be content with any result, even a first round loss to Texas A&M)
     
  3. Justman Justman is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:25pm) in reply to Luho

    Tough call, I'd go with winning though.
  4. Skywalker18 Skywalker18 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:26pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    depends on the team imo...

    senior laden team i'd rather lose in the 1st round. Young team gains more imo from going deep in the NIT than it does by being a 11 seed and getting bounced. Problem is that you'd always rather be in the dance so it's a hindsight type of deal.
  5. number1pen number1pen is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:32pm) in reply to Skywalker18

    yea depends, if ur a small school, its ur dream to get to the tourney, no one expects u to win

    If ur a decent school with little history, id probably say win the NIT, like a miss st, cal

    As a UCLA fan, get to the tourney, no one is going to care if u win the NIT
     
  6. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:33pm) in reply to Skywalker18

    Winning the NIT is a pretty decent accomplishment imo, much greater than just making it to the dance.

    I don't know why a fan would prefer a 1st round NCAA loss, unless you're a fan of some super small unsuccessful school that rarely makes the NCAA tourney.

    I think there are a lot of factors that should play into the decision, many of which have been mentioned but most importantly winning the last game of the year is a really good way to go out.
  7. marinersheep marinersheep is offline This is stupid.

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:36pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    Of course you'd rather make it to the tournament than win a tournament against a bunch of teams that couldn't make it into the tournament.

    If you're a coach or player, what's your goal:

    1. Make the NCAA Tournament

    2. Win the NIT Tournament

    It's a no-brainer. Getting into the Big Dance is better than winning a meaningless consolation tournament.
     
  8. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:37pm) in reply to marinersheep

    A lot of NIT teams would be huge favorites against a lot of 1st round loss NCAA tourney teams, so please don't play the "talent prestige" card up in this motherfucker knawatimsayin?
  9. Skywalker18 Skywalker18 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:38pm) in reply to jtown1010

    I agree but it sorta doesn't matter. Determining this is hypothetical because the goal is always to get to the tournament, even though certain teams would benefit more next year by having success in the NIT.
  10. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:43pm) in reply to Skywalker18

    Your goal as a coach/player is probably one of these:

    -win a championship

    -make a final 4 run

    -make the sweet 16

    -make it to the dance

    -play like a champion

    -get paid

    I think it's disingenuous at best to assume we know or can predict a player/coach's pre-season goals, and there's always going to be a realistic/delusional factor involved so who knows if goals are even a good indicator for potential results.
  11. Luho Luho is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:44pm) in reply to jtown1010

     
    Originally Posted by jtown1010 View Post

    A lot of NIT teams would be huge favorites against a lot of 1st round loss NCAA tourney teams

    This is only suppose to be because of automatic bids tho...thats just the way it is...Theoretically, the at-large bids that get in should be better than the at-large bids that don't get in, and there is no denying that.
     
  12. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:46pm) in reply to Luho

    You would think that on a poker forum a guy could claim variance all day long and be taken seriously, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case on P5's.
  13. yjbrewer yjbrewer is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:47pm) in reply to Luho

    No one gives a shit about the NIT(Non Interesting Tournament). No one wants to get knocked out in 1st round of NCAA tourney unless its someone from the play in game and its a miracle to get in like a MEAC champion or something. This other tourney they got now the CBI is just redonkulous.
  14. I Spew Chips I Spew Chips is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:47pm) in reply to jtown1010

    Def lose first rd over winning NIT....but I'm a UK fan :)
     
  15. ImaBustYou ImaBustYou is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:47pm) in reply to jtown1010

     
    Originally Posted by jtown1010 View Post

    Winning the NIT is a pretty decent accomplishment imo, much greater than just making it to the dance.

    I don't know why a fan would prefer a 1st round NCAA loss, unless you're a fan of some super small unsuccessful school that rarely makes the NCAA tourney.

    I think there are a lot of factors that should play into the decision, many of which have been mentioned but most importantly winning the last game of the year is a really good way to go out.

    I am a big Marquette fan. They are not super small or unsucessful. Rather, they have successful basketball program...I would rather see them get to the NCAA Tourney and lose first round rather than win NIT! They could do some damage in the NCAA and a run in that tourney is amazing. It's def better to have a chance in the "BIG DANCE."

    NCAA tourney is the greatest team tournament known to man!

    WSOP ME greatest individual tournament imo-
    Thread Starter
  16. TheSilentBob TheSilentBob is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 9:59pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    Even though you are giving this question parameters, you are still asking if you'd rather be in the dance or the NIT. Obv, everyone wants to be in the dance. It's a no brainer. I know, I know, you said WIN the NIT or lose 1st round. Still, you can't be in both. You think you'll find one 16 seed (the only upset that hasn't happened) who'd rather be in the NIT? Neither do I.
  17. Neeek Neeek is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:03pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    the answer is making the tourney. anyone that says the NIT is an idiot. this is not even close.
  18. Denty Denty is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:05pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    the NIT is meaningless. id rather lose a meaningful game than win meaningless ones. losing rd 1 in the tournament is 64th place at worst. winning the NIT is 66th place (since theres that play-in game). would you rather win the 2nd bcs bowl game, or lose the championship? its the exact same thing just on a smaller scale. not being in the championship and winning 3rd just makes you "the best of the rest", the exact same as winning the NIT. in both cases you had no chance of winning the actual championship and fuck moral victories. die with honor
     
  19. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:05pm) in reply to TheSilentBob

    Maybe I've been reading this wrong but I was assuming we were talking about actually losing in the 1st round, not "having a chance" or "making the dance".

    I appreciate you looking at this from the 16 seed angle, but what about the #1 seed?

    Would you like to be the be the 1st ever #1 seed to bow out gracefully in the 1st round?

    I'm sure that would sit real well with Kentucky fans, much better than winning the NIT obv.
  20. EyeKnows EyeKnows is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:07pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    one n done ncaa > nit win
  21. shallowcal shallowcal is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:07pm) in reply to jtown1010

    winning>losing ANYDAY of the week, dont care where when or to whom
  22. Luho Luho is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:11pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    Is the OP from a player or fan perspective?

    Edit: reason I ask:

    I'm an Arizona fan...I wouldn't give a shit if they won the NIT this year

    HOWEVER, If I were the starting PG for AZ, I'd rather play 3 more weeks and win that NIT trophy than lose out in the 1st round of the big dance....as long as those are the only 2 options.

    I'd obviously rather be the 13 seed as the worst at large bid in the big dance than the top team in the NIT (if outcomes were not known)
     
  23. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:16pm) in reply to Luho

    It breaks down like this imo:

    -NIT teams are usually the best teams in the country that didn't make the tourney.

    -A pool of NIT teams is usually better/more talented than a pool of 1st round NCAA tourney losers.

    -If you're on the higher end of the talent spectrum for 1st round NCAA tourney losers, your season was probably a huge disappointment because you probably suffered a significant upset in the 1st round.

    -An NIT champion is generally a lot more talented than a 1st round NCAA tourney loser, thus having a significantly brighter future in most cases.

    In conclusion, LOL at all of you talking about history not remembering NIT winners like history has a special place in it's heart for 1st round NCAA tourney losers.
  24. shallowcal shallowcal is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:17pm) in reply to Luho

    also... besides the big east teams that DONT make the conference tourney but win their last reg season game (obv these teams wouldnt be eligible for post season play if they cant make the big esat tourney) who finishes the season with a win? answer? the winner of the NIT and the winner of the NCAA tourney. every other team in the country ends their season on a losing note, with a bad taste in their mouth, waiting another 7 months for a chance to win....
  25. ItEatsCards ItEatsCards is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:18pm) in reply to ImaBustYou

    well after my squad won the NIT last year, im def gonna go with the NIT. maybe its because penn state usually sucks at basketball and i got to watch 5 more games over 2 at the most. It helps that most of the games were exciting. First game went to ot on a buzzer beater, 3rd game went to florida as 11 point dogs n won, then raped some teams at msg. me and most of my friends agreed that the NIT was a lot more fun afterwards. plus all the extra ptactice helped penn state to a defeated big 10 record this year
  26. ItEatsCards ItEatsCards is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:21pm) in reply to Denty

    so u would never participate in a sport where u had no chance to be a world champion?
  27. Neeek Neeek is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:25pm) in reply to jtown1010

     
    Originally Posted by jtown1010 View Post

    In conclusion, LOL at all of you talking about history not remembering NIT winners like history has a special place in it's heart for 1st round NCAA tourney losers.

    i could tell you every tourney game Mizzou has played in the last 15 years. I could not tell you a single fact about their NIT apperances. I could probably tell you 55 of the teams that played in the NCAA tourney last year, and 2-3 at best in the NIT without guessing. its completely meaningless to fans, and a huge disappointement to players.

    you always see a teams # of tourney appearnaces, streak of consecutive tourney appearnaces etc. When was the last time you saw an NIT outcome mentioned when a team is being talked about.

    sure they dont hold a special place, but that place is more special than the one held by an NIT champion.
  28. Luho Luho is online now

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:27pm) in reply to Neeek

    I agree w/ya Neek except for the "huge disappointment to players"

    I don't personally know any of the players who have ever won an NIT, but I would assume that it wasn't a huge disappointment.

    Besides that, I agreed with everything else...I couldn't tell you any NIT teams, and I honestly didn't remember Penn State won it last year either, lol
     
  29. FenwayKing FenwayKing is offline The Well: FenwayKing

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:28pm) in reply to marinersheep

    really don't see how it's close

    NCAA tournament
    247 1
  30. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Feb 16th, 2010 (2/16/2010 10:29pm) in reply to Neeek

    Well Neeek, that's great and it's your opinion and I would never argue that you were wrong about your opinion since you're the expert.

    I obv feel differently for the reasons I've mentioned and I think my reasons are legit.

    Both scenario's would ultimately be a disappointment so I'm going with the one that I think usually produces better results for the future.
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