1. epic....

    The Worst Bill Ever

    Epic new spending and taxes, pricier insurance, rationed care, dishonest accounting: The Pelosi health bill has it all.

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi has reportedly told fellow Democrats that she's prepared to lose seats in 2010 if that's what it takes to pass ObamaCare, and little wonder. The health bill she unwrapped last Thursday, which President Obama hailed as a "critical milestone," may well be the worst piece of post-New Deal legislation ever introduced.

    In a rational political world, this 1,990-page runaway train would have been derailed months ago. With spending and debt already at record peacetime levels, the bill creates a new and probably unrepealable middle-class entitlement that is designed to expand over time. Taxes will need to rise precipitously, even as ObamaCare so dramatically expands government control of health care that eventually all medicine will be rationed via politics.

    Yet at this point, Democrats have dumped any pretense of genuine bipartisan "reform" and moved into the realm of pure power politics as they race against the unpopularity of their own agenda. The goal is to ram through whatever income-redistribution scheme they can claim to be "universal coverage." The result will be destructive on every level—for the health-care system, for the country's fiscal condition, and ultimately for American freedom and prosperity.

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    Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.

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    •The spending surge. The Congressional Budget Office figures the House program will cost $1.055 trillion over a decade, which while far above the $829 billion net cost that Mrs. Pelosi fed to credulous reporters is still a low-ball estimate. Most of the money goes into government-run "exchanges" where people earning between 150% and 400% of the poverty level—that is, up to about $96,000 for a family of four in 2016—could buy coverage at heavily subsidized rates, tied to income. The government would pay for 93% of insurance costs for a family making $42,000, 72% for another making $78,000, and so forth.

    At least at first, these benefits would be offered only to those whose employers don't provide insurance or work for small businesses with 100 or fewer workers. The taxpayer costs would be far higher if not for this "firewall"—which is sure to cave in when people see the deal their neighbors are getting on "free" health care. Mrs. Pelosi knows this, like everyone else in Washington.

    Even so, the House disguises hundreds of billions of dollars in additional costs with budget gimmicks. It "pays for" about six years of program with a decade of revenue, with the heaviest costs concentrated in the second five years. The House also pretends Medicare payments to doctors will be cut by 21.5% next year and deeper after that, "saving" about $250 billion. ObamaCare will be lucky to cost under $2 trillion over 10 years; it will grow more after that.

    • Expanding Medicaid, gutting private Medicare. All this is particularly reckless given the unfunded liabilities of Medicare—now north of $37 trillion over 75 years. Mrs. Pelosi wants to steal $426 billion from future Medicare spending to "pay for" universal coverage. While Medicare's price controls on doctors and hospitals are certain to be tightened, the only cut that is a sure thing in practice is gutting Medicare Advantage to the tune of $170 billion. Democrats loathe this program because it gives one of out five seniors private insurance options.

    As for Medicaid, the House will expand eligibility to everyone below 150% of the poverty level, meaning that some 15 million new people will be added to the rolls as private insurance gets crowded out at a cost of $425 billion. A decade from now more than a quarter of the population will be on a program originally intended for poor women, children and the disabled.

    Even though the House will assume 91% of the "matching rate" for this joint state-federal program—up from today's 57%—governors would still be forced to take on $34 billion in new burdens when budgets from Albany to Sacramento are in fiscal collapse. Washington's budget will collapse too, if anything like the House bill passes.

    • European levels of taxation. All told, the House favors $572 billion in new taxes, mostly by imposing a 5.4-percentage-point "surcharge" on joint filers earning over $1 million, $500,000 for singles. This tax will raise the top marginal rate to 45% in 2011 from 39.6% when the Bush tax cuts expire—not counting state income taxes and the phase-out of certain deductions and exemptions. The burden will mostly fall on the small businesses that have organized as Subchapter S or limited liability corporations, since the truly wealthy won't have any difficulty sheltering their incomes.

    This surtax could hit ever more earners because, like the alternative minimum tax, it isn't indexed for inflation. Yet it still won't be nearly enough. Even if Congress had confiscated 100% of the taxable income of people earning over $500,000 in the boom year of 2006, it would have only raised $1.3 trillion. When Democrats end up soaking the middle class, perhaps via the European-style value-added tax that Mrs. Pelosi has endorsed, they'll claim the deficits that they created made them do it.

    Under another new tax, businesses would have to surrender 8% of their payroll to government if they don't offer insurance or pay at least 72.5% of their workers' premiums, which eat into wages. Such "play or pay" taxes always become "pay or pay" and will rise over time, with severe consequences for hiring, job creation and ultimately growth. While the U.S. already has one of the highest corporate income tax rates in the world, Democrats are on the way to creating a high structural unemployment rate, much as Europe has done by expanding its welfare states.

    Meanwhile, a tax equal to 2.5% of adjusted gross income will also be imposed on some 18 million people who CBO expects still won't buy insurance in 2019. Democrats could make this penalty even higher, but that is politically unacceptable, or they could make the subsidies even higher, but that would expose the (already ludicrous) illusion that ObamaCare will reduce the deficit.

    • The insurance takeover. A new "health choices commissioner" will decide what counts as "essential benefits," which all insurers will have to offer as first-dollar coverage. Private insurers will also be told how much they are allowed to charge even as they will have to offer coverage at virtually the same price to anyone who applies, regardless of health status or medical history.

    The cost of insurance, naturally, will skyrocket. The insurer WellPoint estimates based on its own market data that some premiums in the individual market will triple under these new burdens. The same is likely to prove true for the employer-sponsored plans that provide private coverage to about 177 million people today. Over time, the new mandates will apply to all contracts, including for the large businesses currently given a safe harbor from bureaucratic tampering under a 1974 law called Erisa.

    The political incentive will always be for government to expand benefits and reduce cost-sharing, trampling any chance of giving individuals financial incentives to economize on care. Essentially, all insurers will become government contractors, in the business of fulfilling political demands: There will be no such thing as "private" health insurance.
    <H4>***</H4>
    All of this is intentional, even if it isn't explicitly acknowledged. The overriding liberal ambition is to finish the work began decades ago as the Great Society of converting health care into a government responsibility. Mr. Obama's own Medicare actuaries estimate that the federal share of U.S. health dollars will quickly climb beyond 60% from 46% today. One reason Mrs. Pelosi has fought so ferociously against her own Blue Dog colleagues to include at least a scaled-back "public option" entitlement program is so that the architecture is in place for future Congresses to expand this share even further.

    As Congress's balance sheet drowns in trillions of dollars in new obligations, the political system will have no choice but to start making cost-minded decisions about which treatments patients are allowed to receive. Democrats can't regulate their way out of the reality that we live in a world of finite resources and infinite wants. Once health care is nationalized, or mostly nationalized, medical rationing is inevitable—especially for the innovative high-cost technologies and drugs that are the future of medicine.

    Mr. Obama rode into office on a wave of "change," but we doubt most voters realized that the change Democrats had in mind was making health care even more expensive and rigid than the status quo. Critics will say we are exaggerating, but we believe it is no stretch to say that Mrs. Pelosi's handiwork ranks with the Smoot-Hawley tariff and FDR's National Industrial Recovery Act as among the worst bills Congress has ever seriously contemplated.
     
  2. OMG, going to bring UD out of lurk mode already.
  3.  
    Originally Posted by resilient View Post

    •The spending surge. The Congressional Budget Office figures the House program will cost $1.055 trillion over a decade, which while far above the $829 billion net cost that Mrs. Pelosi fed to credulous reporters is still a low-ball estimate. Most of the money goes into government-run "exchanges" where people earning between 150% and 400% of the poverty level—that is, up to about $96,000 for a family of four in 2016—could buy coverage at heavily subsidized rates, tied to income. The government would pay for 93% of insurance costs for a family making $42,000, 72% for another making $78,000, and so forth.

    Wanna acknowledge the CBO as a reliable source now UD??

    I'll take your silence as all the proof i need.
  4.  
    Originally Posted by jetsjets1028 View Post

    I'll take your silence as all the proof i need.

    weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

    We really should thank the Democrats for taking the line that they have. Something more moderate actually had a chance of passage.
     
    Thread Starter
  5.  
    Originally Posted by HK_MP5N View Post

    OMG, going to bring UD out of lurk mode already.

    nah, UD picked a pretty convenient time to go on hiatus - there's no way anyone can defend this monstrosity
  6.  
    Originally Posted by pigalet42 View Post

    nah, UD picked a pretty convenient time to go on hiatus - there's no way anyone can defend this monstrosity

    Tomorrow should be interesting as well.
  7.  
    Originally Posted by pigalet42 View Post

    nah, UD picked a pretty convenient time to go on hiatus - there's no way anyone can defend this monstrosity

    i think he took a job as Nancy Pelosi's personal Healthcare Czar. I think that 50K word "novel" he is working on is actually gonna be the table of contents for her new bill
  8. Id hit it.
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    No thanks, I'll pass on viewing the full image
     
  10.  
    Originally Posted by Pker4Dummies View Post

    Id hit it.

    with a brick
  11.  
    Originally Posted by Artiecat View Post

    <A>View Full Image</A>

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    No thanks, I'll pass on viewing the full image

    maybe if we view the full image we will see UD kneeling in front of her with an OT sign

    let me check....

    nahhhh
  12. this months conservative circle jerk should be even more amusing than usual
  13. it would actually be interesting to see some liberals other than Underdog post on this issue. I think the fact that it truly is indefensible is creating a plague of crickets...
     
    Thread Starter
  14.  
    Originally Posted by resilient View Post

    it would actually be interesting to see some liberals other than Underdog post on this issue. I think the fact that it truly is indefensible is creating a plague of crickets...

    especially since UD is so bad at making his point and always misquotes and makes up his own sources
  15.  
    Originally Posted by resilient View Post

    it would actually be interesting to see some liberals other than Underdog post on this issue. I think the fact that it truly is indefensible is creating a plague of crickets...

    ya know, not everyone who votes liberally is the same.
  16.  
    Originally Posted by resilient View Post

    it would actually be interesting to see some liberals other than Underdog post on this issue. I think the fact that it truly is indefensible is creating a plague of crickets...

    good luck with that
  17. not surprising at all....its very difficult to defend the indefensible

    Obama, Pelosi, and co. are over-reaching so much that they are gonna risk ruining the good thing they have (control of WH and Congress)

    that part makes me smile
  18. Op Ed, right?

    I think that means something.
  19.  
    Originally Posted by jackaaron View Post

    Op Ed, right?

    I think that means something.

    I think that it means that your only possible defense is to deflect the logical reasoning as opinion.
     
    Thread Starter
  20.  
    Originally Posted by resilient View Post

     
    Originally Posted by jackaaron View Post

    Op Ed, right?

    I think that means something.

    I think that it means that your only possible defense is to deflect the logical reasoning as opinion.

    yep, thats what it means

    very poor UD impersonation if thats what you were going for...but its only the 2nd day so we can see how you do going forward
  21.  
    Originally Posted by jackaaron View Post

    Op Ed, right?

    I think that means something.

    yes, it means "opposite the editorial page"

    good job
     2
  22. liberals won't openly talk about it. All of this needs to be hidden, goes hand in hand with the WH going after Fox for talking about this stuff without the rose colored glasses.

    The liberal agenda is to buy votes by promising free lunches...much like the moron in your 3rd grade class who rode this to student council power, our government has no idea how to pay for these promises... So they act like a typical 3rd grader and simply make things up as excuses...

    These are not sophisticated people, they don't have the intelligence to balance the government books in their minds, they simply have stereotypical images in their heads of everyone being wealthy in absolute, unaltering ways, and they think they can have the same with no consequences...

    If only there were no consequences in life...
  23. Fox News is gonna have a field day with the story in the OP.

    They love quoting the WSJ.

    I feel like I'm watching the shootout in a hockey game.

    1st 3 shooters were Obama, Max Baucus, and Harry Reid.

    Still tied and they go to Pelosi.

    Who is next?

    Maybe Charlie Rangel will entertain us with his innovative ideas on the subject.
  24.  
    Originally Posted by jetsjets1028 View Post

    Fox News is gonna have a field day with the story in the OP.

    They love quoting the WSJ.

    I feel like I'm watching the shootout in a hockey game.

    1st 3 shooters were Obama, Max Baucus, and Harry Reid.

    Still tied and they go to Pelosi.

    Who is next?

    Maybe Charlie Rangel will entertain us with his innovative ideas on the subject.

    Krauthammer is the best guy on TV/print to read/watch on this stuff...
  25.  
    Originally Posted by SpauldingSmails View Post

    Krauthammer is the best guy on TV/print to read/watch on this stuff...

    yeah but he looks like they glued his neck to his shoulders....kinda like a male version of Pelosi
  26. ugh, read all this and now i really want a brat w/ kraut.

    mmmmm.
  27. What's wrong with 111 new government bureaucracies? Also I enjoy pasting shit from Fox News as I know that sends some of you over the edge.

    <h1 id="story-title">RAW DATA: GOP List of New 'Bureaucracies' in House Health Care Bill</h1>

    The following is a list of the "new federal bureaucracies" that the House Republican Conference claims are created in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's health care reform bill.

    1. Retiree Reserve Trust Fund (Section 111(d), p. 61)

    2. Grant program for wellness programs to small employers (Section 112, p. 62)

    3. Grant program for State health access programs (Section 114, p. 72)

    4. Program of administrative simplification (Section 115, p. 76)

    5. Health Benefits Advisory Committee (Section 223, p. 111)

    6. Health Choices Administration (Section 241, p. 131)

    7. Qualified Health Benefits Plan Ombudsman (Section 244, p. 138)

    8. Health Insurance Exchange (Section 201, p. 155)

    9. Program for technical assistance to employees of small businesses buying Exchange coverage (Section 305(h), p. 191)

    10. Mechanism for insurance risk pooling to be established by Health Choices Commissioner (Section 306(b), p. 194)

    11. Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund (Section 307, p. 195)

    12. State-based Health Insurance Exchanges (Section 308, p. 197)

    13. Grant program for health insurance cooperatives (Section 310, p. 206)

    14. "Public Health Insurance Option" (Section 321, p. 211)

    15. Ombudsman for "Public Health Insurance Option" (Section 321(d), p. 213)

    16. Account for receipts and disbursements for "Public Health Insurance Option" (Section 322(b), p. 215)

    17. Telehealth Advisory Committee (Section 1191 (b), p. 589)

    18. Demonstration program providing reimbursement for "culturally and linguistically appropriate services" (Section 1222, p. 617)

    19. Demonstration program for shared decision making using patient decision aids (Section 1236, p. 648)

    20. Accountable Care Organization pilot program under Medicare (Section 1301, p. 653)

    21. Independent patient-centered medical home pilot program under Medicare (Section 1302, p. 672)

    22. Community-based medical home pilot program under Medicare (Section 1302(d), p. 681)

    23. Independence at home demonstration program (Section 1312, p. 718)

    24. Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research (Section 1401(a), p. 734)

    25. Comparative Effectiveness Research Commission (Section 1401(a), p. 738)

    26. Patient ombudsman for comparative effectiveness research (Section 1401(a), p. 753)

    27. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 1412(b)(1), p. 784)

    28. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for nursing facilities (Section 1412 (b)(2), p. 786)

    29. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 1413(a)(3), p. 796)

    30. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section 1413(b)(3), p. 804)

    31. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing facilities and nursing facilities (Section 1422, p. 859)

    32. Demonstration program for approved teaching health centers with respect to Medicare GME (Section 1502(d), p. 933)

    33. Pilot program to develop anti-fraud compliance systems for Medicare providers (Section 1635, p. 978)

    34. Special Inspector General for the Health Insurance Exchange (Section 1647, p. 1000)

    35. Medical home pilot program under Medicaid (Section 1722, p. 1058)

    36. Accountable Care Organization pilot program under Medicaid (Section 1730A, p. 1073)

    37. Nursing facility supplemental payment program (Section 1745, p. 1106)

    38. Demonstration program for Medicaid coverage to stabilize emergency medical conditions in institutions for mental diseases (Section 1787, p. 1149)

    39. Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund (Section 1802, p. 1162)

    40. "Identifiable office or program" within CMS to "provide for improved coordination between Medicare and Medicaid in the case of dual eligibles" (Section 1905, p. 1191)

    41. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 1907, p. 1198)

    42. Public Health Investment Fund (Section 2002, p. 1214)

    43. Scholarships for service in health professional needs areas (Section 2211, p. 1224)

    44. Program for training medical residents in community-based settings (Section 2214, p. 1236)

    45. Grant program for training in dentistry programs (Section 2215, p. 1240)

    46. Public Health Workforce Corps (Section 2231, p. 1253)

    47. Public health workforce scholarship program (Section 2231, p. 1254)

    48. Public health workforce loan forgiveness program (Section 2231, p. 1258)

    49. Grant program for innovations in interdisciplinary care (Section 2252, p. 1272)

    50. Advisory Committee on Health Workforce Evaluation and Assessment (Section 2261, p. 1275)

    51. Prevention and Wellness Trust (Section 2301, p. 1286)

    52. Clinical Prevention Stakeholders Board (Section 2301, p. 1295)

    53. Community Prevention Stakeholders Board (Section 2301, p. 1301)

    54. Grant program for community prevention and wellness research (Section 2301, p. 1305)

    55. Grant program for research and demonstration projects related to wellness incentives (Section 2301, p. 1305)

    56. Grant program for community prevention and wellness services (Section 2301, p. 1308)

    57. Grant program for public health infrastructure (Section 2301, p. 1313)

    58. Center for Quality Improvement (Section 2401, p. 1322)

    59. Assistant Secretary for Health Information (Section 2402, p. 1330)

    60. Grant program to support the operation of school-based health clinics (Section 2511, p. 1352)

    61. Grant program for nurse-managed health centers (Section 2512, p. 1361)

    62. Grants for labor-management programs for nursing training (Section 2521, p. 1372)

    63. Grant program for interdisciplinary mental and behavioral health training (Section 2522, p. 1382)

    64. "No Child Left Unimmunized Against Influenza" demonstration grant program (Section 2524, p. 1391)

    65. Healthy Teen Initiative grant program regarding teen pregnancy (Section 2526, p. 1398)

    66. Grant program for interdisciplinary training, education, and services for individuals with autism (Section 2527(a), p. 1402)

    67. University centers for excellence in developmental disabilities education (Section 2527(b), p. 1410)

    68. Grant program to implement medication therapy management services (Section 2528, p. 1412)

    69. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors in underserved communities (Section 2530, p. 1422)

    70. Grant program for State alternative medical liability laws (Section 2531, p. 1431)

    71. Grant program to develop infant mortality programs (Section 2532, p. 1433)

    72. Grant program to prepare secondary school students for careers in health professions (Section 2533, p. 1437)

    73. Grant program for community-based collaborative care (Section 2534, p. 1440)

    74. Grant program for community-based overweight and obesity prevention (Section 2535, p. 1457)

    75. Grant program for reducing the student-to-school nurse ratio in primary and secondary schools (Section 2536, p. 1462)

    76. Demonstration project of grants to medical-legal partnerships (Section 2537, p. 1464)

    77. Center for Emergency Care under the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (Section 2552, p. 1478)

    78. Council for Emergency Care (Section 2552, p 1479)

    79. Grant program to support demonstration programs that design and implement regionalized emergency care systems (Section 2553, p. 1480)

    80. Grant program to assist veterans who wish to become emergency medical technicians upon discharge (Section 2554, p. 1487)

    81. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 2562, p. 1494)

    82. National Medical Device Registry (Section 2571, p. 1501)

    83. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 2581, p. 1597)

    84. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 2581, p. 1598)

    85. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 2581, p. 1602)

    86. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1610)

    87. National Women's Health Information Center (Section 2588, p. 1611)

    88. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1614)

    89. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women's Health and Gender-Based Research (Section 2588, p. 1617)

    90. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1618)

    91. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1621)

    92. Personal Care Attendant Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 2589(a)(2), p. 1624)

    93. Grant program for national health workforce online training (Section 2591, p. 1629)

    94. Grant program to disseminate best practices on implementing health workforce investment programs (Section 2591, p. 1632)

    95. Demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (Section 3101, p. 1717)

    96. Demonstration program for substance abuse counselor educational curricula (Section 3101, p. 1719)

    97. Program of Indian community education on mental illness (Section 3101, p. 1722)

    98. Intergovernmental Task Force on Indian environmental and nuclear hazards (Section 3101, p. 1754)

    99. Office of Indian Men's Health (Section 3101, p. 1765)

    100. Indian Health facilities appropriation advisory board (Section 3101, p. 1774)

    101. Indian Health facilities needs assessment workgroup (Section 3101, p. 1775)

    102. Indian Health Service tribal facilities joint venture demonstration projects (Section 3101, p. 1809)

    103. Urban youth treatment center demonstration project (Section 3101, p. 1873)

    104. Grants to Urban Indian Organizations for diabetes prevention (Section 3101, p. 1874)

    105. Grants to Urban Indian Organizations for health IT adoption (Section 3101, p. 1877)

    106. Mental health technician training program (Section 3101, p. 1898)

    107. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (Section 3101, p. 1909)

    108. Program for treatment of child sexual abuse victims and perpetrators (Section 3101, p. 1925)

    109. Program for treatment of domestic violence and sexual abuse (Section 3101, p. 1927)

    110. Native American Health and Wellness Foundation (Section 3103, p. 1966)

    111. Committee for the Establishment of the Native American Health and Wellness Foundation (Section 3103, p. 1968)

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...e-health-care/
  28.  
    Originally Posted by SpauldingSmails View Post

    Krauthammer is the best guy on TV/print to read/watch on this stuff...

    I like Bill Kristol better.
     
  29. meh......if george bush did it there would have been 112 new beurocracies (sp?)
  30. you morans just don't know what's best for you. best leave it to the professionals in congress imo

    on the other hand, a(nother) trillion here, a(nother) trillion there...