1.  
    Originally Posted by norcaljeff View Post

    In re syg law: It seems to me the people that were so antideath penalty and always talk about the wrongfully imprisoned now seem dead set on convicting people not only with no evidence, but because of the lack if evidence. Seems like it's asking people to prove their innocence to me. Dont you have to take the word of someone who says they shot in self defense if there is no evidence to refute theclaim?

    Its like the justice system has become a popular opinion poll. People hate Zimmerman and want him to stand trial despite the fact he is totally exonerated under SYG.
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  2.  
    Originally Posted by RichardHurtz View Post

    It doesn't matter if Zimmerman followed or chased Martin. SYG still applies. Aggressor in SYG would be if Zimmerman was beating on Martin then shot him.
    This case will never go to trial and the prosecutor will be responsible for provoking a riot. Shame on her.

    http://www.standard.net/stories/2012...se-doesnt-show

    i would not be surprised at all if zimm is found not guilty or it doesnt go to trial.

    i have to believe tho that if it was shown that zimmerman chased martin he would surely be on the hook as responsible for martin's death.

    i wonder how true what that girl is saying is.

    wonder what would be justice in a case where zimm follows martin, gets up in his face saying, "what are u doing here?" maybe martin holds his ground so they do kind of bump then a fight starts. (not saying this is what happen, just thoughts on if this was what really happened).

    maybe zimm and martin kind of bump each other and trayvon notices the gun and fight starts. (complete guess)
     
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  3.  
    Originally Posted by AmSlim22 View Post

    i would not be surprised at all if zimm is found not guilty or it doesnt go to trial.

    i have to believe tho that if it was shown that zimmerman chased martin he would surely be on the hook as responsible for martin's death.

    i wonder how true what that girl is saying is.

    wonder what would be justice in a case where zimm follows martin, gets up in his face saying, "what are u doing here?" maybe martin holds his ground so they do kind of bump then a fight starts. (not saying this is what happen, just thoughts on if this was what really happened).

    maybe zimm and martin kind of bump each other and trayvon notices the gun and fight starts. (complete guess)

    There is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman's personality is responsible for what went down. He was armed and I bet he was just itching to have an excuse to pull the trigger. I know the type.

    Can you imagine being the judge in this case? Talk about a no win situation.
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  4.  
    Originally Posted by RichardHurtz View Post

    There is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman's personality is responsible for what went down. He was armed and I bet he was just itching to have an excuse to pull the trigger. I know the type.

    Can you imagine being the judge in this case? Talk about a no win situation.

    There is no doubt in my mind Martin's personality is responsible for what went down.

    Sounds dumb to make allegations about personality types here. Nobody knows what really happened except for two people. One is dead. No jury is going to convict Zimmerman. It's his story against a dead man's.
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  5. i dont think zimm was itching to kill someone, i just think he had seen one too many criminals get away with stuff under his watch. i do think he seems to have that type of personality that wants to be the authority figure, but others don't see him as it and this makes him want to prove it even more that he is. for instance him taking whatever law enforcement classes he tried to take (i think i heard this) and also illustrated by him naming himself as captain of the neighborhood watch. i do also think he had genuine concern for ridding his neighborhood of crime, tho very likely he was over-vigilant.

    i also think it is likely that maybe trayvon had had one too many encounters with authority or maybe just didnt want to be messed with that night. (altho, the girl on phone convo does seem like he was trying to avoid confrontation). maybe when he realized he was about to be confronted again, when he was doing nothing wrong, but some guy, he became aggressive.

    zimm and martin seem to have become the embodiment of many commonly held, but contradicting societal views. this story covered most all the bases. Gun rights, race, defending oneself from crime, hate, stereotypes, police mistakes, etc..

    zimm on one hand could be seen as the idea of the shrinking sense of community and the idea of fearing the unknown. seeing anyone who doesnt seem to belong as the other and a threat to what used to be ur safe and secure life. martin is that of the oppressed minority, always being found guilty of something just by his appearance. always having to prove that they are not doing anything wrong, while continuously being asked "what are you doing here?" (either directly or just by how people look at him).

    putting these two together on that night led to a national story bc so many identified with both sides and found the conflict they wanted to find from their perspective. the fact that the one moment that matters most in the whole case is a complete question mark allows people to fill in the massively important blank with exactly the narrative they want and that makes them most comfortable.

    even all the fringe groups played their parts. the media, the politicians, the black panthers, forum posters and everyone else who weighed in. it would have been so nice to not have them play their parts so precisely. an actual discussion of where each side may have a legitimate point and where each side may have fallen into previously held bias would have been much more enlightening.

    i admit that i may have also jumped to a few conclusions, altho i will sort of defend myself by saying my biggest problem with the thing from the beginning was that an untrained civilian was walking the street with a gun and following people that he had seen do nothing more than "act suspicious".

    i think the most important thing for people to do while discussing this story is to examine how they fill in the blank of time from after zimm's 911 call to when the gun went off and ask themselves why that is the story they came up with. and then ask if that conclusion is fair to both zimm and martin.
     
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  7.  
    Originally Posted by Willywoo View Post

    You kind of overlapped the "no witnesses thing" to this case in particular. To answer your hypothetical there would likely be other physical evidence. Other live witnesses are not a necessity but the lack of live witnesses could may make either sides case more difficult depending on the available facts.

    way to leave out the first part of that paragraph where it starts with "IF there are no witnesses..." when bolding. I pointed out something with respect to the case, and then a PERIOD followed. and i continued with "So, no witnesses, so on, so forth" to continue with my hypothetical.

    not overlapping anything. sorry to have thrown you off by inserting zimm's name tho. i was simply asking, to get a response. So to go on with this, my point is, and why I thought the law had some flaw in it, is that it allows for an easy way out. am i wrong in assuming so? And i've asked this plenty of times itt. if you feel your life is in danger, you can shoot someone, no problemo. Where is the line drawn as far as whats considered life threatening? isn't it a grey area?
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  8.  
    Originally Posted by norcaljeff View Post

    Did LS really say "stalkng"? Loooool and that zim is guilty no matter who threw the first punch?? Looooool holy shit

    Note to self: never talk or look at anyone or be behind them on a street, dont want to be guilty of something if they attack me.

    "excuse me, sir? I think-"
    Smack punch kick
    "ow wtf?
    Kick boot "that's what you get for stalking and talking, bitch" kick
    "fml...guess this usnt your wallet after alll...groan moan. Oh shit the cops i better gtfo!"
    Herrrrrrrp

    What would you call it? outta curiousity.

    and you can't really be implying that trayvon attacked zimm (or was first to throw) or whatever you want to call it can you? naahhhh. you wouldnt do that. not you, mr wait for the facts. imposs you'd even THINK that...
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  9. I'd bet half your posts are in this thread. this case has consumed you.
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  10. I'd bet you're right.

    I don't think it's the case that's consumed me as much as the discussion itt..
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  11. Your all ridiculous, odds are if you see someone looking suspicious (not saying martin did or not) in your neighborhood, some of you might look twice at this person, then when this person runs, you perceive you were right that this person was up to no good (the assumption I would most likely come to) and possibly chase and call the authorities at which point when they tell me to not chase this individual (I doubt I would listen to this suggestion due to the fact I do not want suspicious person getting away, I would try to keep a great distance but still keep an eye on such person). Then after I lost the trail of the person and am walking back to my truck and all of the sudden such person attacks me and starts beating my ass (someone 3" taller than me will most likely have a slight weight advantage) and starts pummeling my face (not saying I would be getting pummeled, but if that were the case) and I was the type of person that carried a gun around with me all the time (which I am not, I do carry a knife tho) then if it gets to the point I start fearing that this person is not going to stop kicking my ass, I might start fearing for my life and shoot this motherfucker in the chest.

    From all I have read and listened to which has been a ton, I listen to talk radio almost every day at work and have pretty much as much information about this case that has come out in the media (which a lot of it is just bullshit and journalists just discussing a bunch of hear say and hardly any real facts as well as spinning it to fit their viewpoint or opinion or what they want it to sound like or be for ratings).

    I was not there and obviously have no real idea what happened but my interpretation above is how I see it logically could have gone down with all the information I have ingested. Not saying anyone did anything right or wrong, I just don't think anyone should be able to convict or not convict and think the decisions either participant made were either right or wrong.

    Most people are very good at spouting off at the mouth that they would do this or do that in any given situation but when in real life that situation happens, most people actually freeze and majority of the time do nothing but run or watch things happen! No one really knows what they will do in any given situation until they are in that given situation, keep your judgements to yourselves.
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  12.  
    Originally Posted by moobs96 View Post

    What would you call it? outta curiousity.

    and you can't really be implying that trayvon attacked zimm (or was first to throw) or whatever you want to call it can you? naahhhh. you wouldnt do that. not you, mr wait for the facts. imposs you'd even THINK that...


    what would I call a neighborhood watch person seeing someone they thought was suspicious and calling the police? and then getting out of the car/confrot/etc? not stalking. "talking"? "walking and talking"? I dunno how that actual convo went down so not sure. but not stalking. lol ffs

    and no, I wasn't implying that trayvon attacked zim or threw the first punch.
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  13. The moment Zim armed himself (which goes against neighborhood watch policy) and ignored the police request that he stop following Treyvon is when Zim lost his right to assert a defense that his actions were in some sort of official capacity.
    Under Florida's retarded SYG law he may have an affirmative defense, but wearing a neighborhood watch hat isn't one of them.
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  14. not saying being hood watch is a defense. just lolling at "stalking"
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  15. From my understanding, Zimmerman was not on neighborhood watch patrol the night in question (not sure neighborhood watch patrols, typically you just get a sign in your window and look out for strange or out of the ordinary individuals in your neighborhood) he was on his way to the store when he saw Martin walking down the back side of residences, he wasn't on the sidewalk or main street, hence why he thought this individual was suspicious, it had nothing to do with a hoodie, it was martins location which he thought was strange and then events unfolded.

    Just the other day a neighbor came around and let us know there was a car that kept parking down the street and just sitting there, then it would drive down the block very slowly, after the car did this multiple times, he started thinking maybe something was up and just went around and told the neighbors to keep an eye out just in case these individuals were up to no good. We don't have a neighborhood watch, he was just being proactive and watching out for his neighbors, I appreciated the information and kept an eye out.
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  16. Based on what I've read and seen in the news, here is what I think happened.

    Zimmerman saw a young kid walking around and thought he looked suspicious. After contacting the police, his "wanna-be" cop thing kicked in and he decided to confront the kid.

    Zimmerman - "Hey, what you doing around here."
    Martin - "Fuck off."
    Zimmerman - "I already called the cops, so don't go anywhere."
    Martin - "You did WHAT? Fuck you, you piece of shit"

    Martin approaches Zimmerman and gets in his face. Zimmerman pushes Martin back and Martin jumps him and starts pummeling him. Zimmerman fights back enough to get some separation, draws his gun and as Martin goes back after him, he shoots him.

    I think Zimmerman was probably looking for a confrontation that night, and Trayvon was more than willing to provide him with that confrontation. But then Zimmerman realized he was over his head, panicked and ended up shooting him.

    If that's the scenario (or something like that), not sure what he can be charged with (if SYG applies if it's unknown who started the confrontation). I still think this will plead out and not go to trial.
     
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  17.  
    Originally Posted by p00pymcp00perton View Post

    The moment Zim armed himself (which goes against neighborhood watch policy) and ignored the police request that he stop following Treyvon is when Zim lost his right to assert a defense that his actions were in some sort of official capacity.
    Under Florida's retarded SYG law he may have an affirmative defense, but wearing a neighborhood watch hat isn't one of them.

    A 911 operator is not a duly sworn officer of the law, nice try though.
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  18.  
    Originally Posted by rebelfd View Post

    A 911 operator is not a duly sworn officer of the law, nice try though.


    BOOM!
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  19.  
    Originally Posted by RichardHurtz View Post

    Except in FL.

    nope, try again.
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  20.  
    Originally Posted by rebelfd View Post

    A 911 operator is not a duly sworn officer of the law, nice try though.

    yeah it's a min wage job here for cop's girlfriends/wives.
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  21.  
    Originally Posted by rebelfd View Post

    A 911 operator is not a duly sworn officer of the law, nice try though.

    Err, they are in charge of emergency response and neighborhood watch people are supposed to acquiesce to emergency responders. Even beyond the minutia of whether a 9-11 operator's orders are supposed to be followed by neighborhood watchmen, the fact that he was carrying a gun kills any defense stating he was acting in some sort of official capacity.

    You'll get 'em next time.
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  22. 911 operators aren't in charge of anything regarding the law rather they are charged with relaying messages from the public to law enforcement, and from law enforcement to other law enforcement. You can replace law enforcement, with EMT, Paramedic, Fire Department. The only time this is not the case is when an officer of the law also acts in the capacity of a dispatcher. Those cases are few and far between. You may see this in some small towns.
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  23. Point taken. I can, and will, concede the point that the 9-11 call wasn't a deal breaker in terms of asserting that he was acting under some official capacity. He still will not successfully raise that defense though.
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  24. 911 operator > neighborhood watch guy > walmart cart gatherer

    (unless I need a cart)
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  25. the 911 operator didn't say don't follow him, said we don't need you to do that. I love how facts(this one is a fact because we can listen to the call) still aren't facts ITT
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  26. it's a fascinating social study that's for sure.
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  27.  
    Originally Posted by littleze View Post

    the 911 operator didn't say don't follow him, said we don't need you to do that. I love how facts(this one is a fact because we can listen to the call) still aren't facts ITT

    I can concede this point too. I stand corrected.
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  28. Poopy's been living on page 5 of this thread
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  29.  
    Originally Posted by littleze View Post

    the 911 operator didn't say don't follow him, said we don't need you to do that. I love how facts(this one is a fact because we can listen to the call) still aren't facts ITT

    To which, Zim says "ok" and arranges a place to go meet law enforcement. It seems that he did listen and was headed back to his car to go meet the LEO.
    Edited By: XquiziVex May 23rd, 2012 at 02:48 AM
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  30.  
    Originally Posted by Lord Supremo View Post

    nope, try again.


    I have a concealed handgun. I start an argument with a guy standing on the street. It escalates and I punch or shove him to the ground. As he is laying on the ground I say, enough of this, turn and walk away. He gets up chases me and tackles me. He starts to beat on me MMA style. I pull out my gun and kill him. I'm fully protected under FL SYG law.
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