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1/2 line check

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  1. RyJS RyJS is offline

    Pittsburgh, PA
    United States

    Posts: 775
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 1:18am)

    7 handed
    Utg limps
    Utg+1 limps
    Utg+2 raises to 16
    Hero flats with KQs
    Blinds both fold
    Both limpets fold

    Villain has $700 approximately
    Hero has $900 approximately

    Villain is very loose will limp call raises with atc and mixes in opening raises with an extremely loose range as well. Have played worth this guy quite a bit.

    Flop Js10d7d
    Villain bets 15
    Hero flats
    Turn 6h
    Villain checks
    Hero bets 45
    Villain flats

    River 8h

    Villain checks
    Hero bets 100

    Villain calls...

    Won't say what he had yet but what range are we putting him on here before he calls the river? Does anyone prefer raising flop? Checking it back on the turn for pot control? Or do you shut it down on the river and give up? Or does the line seem okay?
  2. brennanj15 brennanj15 is offline

    Sterling Heights, MI
    United States

    Posts: 159
    Joined: Nov 10

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 11:15pm) in reply to RyJS

    This is just me, but if he's playing such a wide range of hands couldn't you fairly safely raise this flop on the semi-bluff for about 40-45 total and not have to see a turn most of the time, rather then calling 15 and committing an additional 45 on the turn. The way you describe the villain isn't he c-betting the flop whether he hit it or not, and by just flatting you're essentially letting him peel a card and then having to commit more chips to a bet if you want to take down the pot on the turn. I'd definitely prefer that route since he's folding often enough and you got the pot cheaper, and when he doesn't fold he's going to check the turn to you. At which time you can decide to just try and peel the river seeing your straight for a better price. Also you're hand will be better disguised.

    as for his range I guess it depends on how well you know each other, and how competent of a player he is. If you have a lot of history and he knows you're going to bet I could see him checking a 9 to you here. I could see a fairly weak player showing up with an over pair here. You didn't mention any kind of read or hesitation so that makes it a little harder. I dunno if I know you well enough to be fairly confident you don't have a nine, I would probably look you up here with some sort of two pair hand. He raised early but you said he mixes it up quite a bit, so maybe some sort of two pair with a J or a 10.

    As for shutting down on the river, that depends a lot on how he ranges you. Does he know you're only calling his raises with premium hands? or does he think you're capable of calling and using your position with a lot of suited connector type hands? I mean this one I may be wrong about, but I'm definitely shutting down on the river here, a non diamond 8 on the river doesn't seem to change anything, if he didn't think you had the straight on the turn he's not going to put you on it now. Therefor it would make sense to call with any two pair hand, and or a mid to strong jack.

    I mean I'm far from a cash pro, I second guess myself and have to post scenarios all the time to try and figure out what the right play it. That's just my take
    Edited By: brennanj15 Jan 11th, 2012 at 11:16 PM
  3. OneM24 OneM24 is offline beer pong champion

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 7,772
    Joined: Dec 05

    Jan 12th, 2012 (1/12/2012 7:01pm) in reply to brennanj15

    I'd raise the flop in this spot. If you aren't going to raise the flop, just check back on the turn IMO. Doubt he's folding a pair to the 6 on the turn, and if he can call the turn, he's not folding that river either.

    I don't hate your line, but I like pushing the action a bit on the flop in this spot...especially with your backdoor draw.
  4. RyJS RyJS is offline

    Pittsburgh, PA
    United States

    Posts: 775
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jan 13th, 2012 (1/13/2012 6:23am) in reply to OneM24

    I think he views me as fairly tight. Which is why I was fairly confident he would fold AJ type hands etc to my river bet. Even as the hand was being played I thought I should have raised the flop. He ended up having J10 so I doubt I could have gotten him off it regardless. But I still felt like the overall line was just bad.
    Thread Starter
  5. MarkH MarkH is offline

    Lehi, UT
    United States

    Posts: 207
    Joined: Feb 11

    Jan 13th, 2012 (1/13/2012 6:20pm) in reply to RyJS

    I think I'd view this villain as a gift. Top 2 with TJ is NOT the hand you want to go all passive with, ever. His turn check/call was just horrible. This is what I keep harping on about bad play you have to see to be able to consider in your decision making process. He was just begging to get drawn out. Then he meekly calls down when the 4 str8 hits on the river. That's the kind of guy mediocre players snivel the most about not being able to beat because they're so bad. And it's the kind of player you should want in any and every game you're in.

    Do not view this as a badly played hand on your part but as valuable information about a player that will make you even more than you lost in the long run.
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