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Ethical/Moral Dilemma

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  1. josephf josephf is offline

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    Jul 21st, 2012 (7/21/2012 4:54pm)

    Last night I went to sit into my standard 1/2 game at my local casino. I had been there for roughly 20 minutes. During this time period I noticed that the guy in the 6 seat (I was in the 3 seat) was holding his cards at a very obvious angle and holding them in relatively plain view. I could see the cards pretty clearly in the 3 seat, so I imagine that the guys in the seats next to him had a much better view, as their angle was better.

    Anyways, at that point I decided to speak up and let him know he should be more careful when looking at his cards and that I thought that people might be able to see them.

    The very next hand the guy in the 4 seat and the aforementioned 6 seat battle it out in a hand. It gets down to the river after heaving betting on earlier streets. The river brings a 4 card straight and completes the flopped flush draw. The 4 seat checks, and the 6 seat fires another bet of around $50. However, before he bet the 6 seat held his cards up as he had previously been doing, making his holdings obvious for anybody looking, which I noticed the 4 seat was. As soon as he bet the money, he got snapped by the 4 seat with 3rd pair no kicker.

    Would you speak up and say that you think he looked at the cards? In my opinion there is no way he makes the call without knowing what his cards are. All facts point to him seeing the cards, especially considering directly before the hand I had mentioned he is not protecting his cards at all.

    What would you guys do? Is is worth speaking up? Am I just being paranoid? Should I just keep my mouth shut and let him look at his cards like he wants to? Do I have a responsibility to the game to mention that I think the 4 seat is taking advantage of the 6 seat and exploiting this?
  2. iCONoFpOKER iCONoFpOKER is offline

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    Jul 21st, 2012 (7/21/2012 5:03pm) in reply to josephf

    its obv he saw his cards, but its your job to protect your cards.
  3. hookey91 hookey91 is online now

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    Jul 21st, 2012 (7/21/2012 5:06pm) in reply to josephf

    you gave the guy a warning on the previous hand. I do the same thing. I warn the guy about what he's doing when i first see it and anytime after that it is on him. I fully exploit after he repeatedly does it.
    Edited By: hookey91 Jul 21st, 2012 at 05:06 PM
  4. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

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    Jul 21st, 2012 (7/21/2012 5:57pm) in reply to hookey91

     
    Originally Posted by hookey91 View Post

    you gave the guy a warning on the previous hand. I do the same thing. I warn the guy about what he's doing when i first see it and anytime after that it is on him. I fully exploit after he repeatedly does it.

    I agree. It's a players responsibility to protect their cards. After being warned once, he should have taken more precautions. In addition, after getting snapped by 3rd pair on that board and having been warned about his cards showing, he should now be well aware of the ramifications.
      1
  5. Geoff Moore Geoff Moore is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 1:30am) in reply to tyson219

    how much did you lose to seat 4 in that session?
  6. boneralert boneralert is offline

    Portland, OR
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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 1:38am) in reply to Geoff Moore

    Agree with other commenters that once he's been warned I think you've done your duty and it's up to him to protect his own cards. That being said, if he continues to reveal his cards, and it's entirely to the benefit of other players (i.e. Im never in a position to gain extra information), I probably continue to warn him.
     
  7. RedIceRap RedIceRap is offline Redirator

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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 1:53am) in reply to boneralert

    u warned him one time. from there, it's his fault. just because someone is too stupid to protect his cards that doesnt mean the game flow has to suffer because of that guy. id exploit it and look at his cards if he doesnt protect them, since i would have a big disadvantage if everybody does it except me.
     214 1
  8. Hughes4 Hughes4 is offline

    Scranton, PA
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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 2:21am) in reply to RedIceRap

    keep your mouth shut. this isn't a dilemma
  9. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 2:56am) in reply to Hughes4

    Well, I'm not sure what you want to do here. In most card rooms, it is posted that you should try to avoid seeing someone's cards, but if you happen to see them, you are allowed to use the information. You also warned the guy before the hand, so I don't see an issue.

    Even if you say something, what do you think happens? What I'm sort of surprised about here is, if the guy had more money, why not raise with 3rd pair there all-in? You know the guy will fold, and probably think he had bad luck, so he could be abused again. Flatting 3rd pair makes it rather obvious that he saw the hand.
  10. josephf josephf is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 7:07am) in reply to lordxixor101

     
    Originally Posted by Geoff Moore View Post

    how much did you lose to seat 4 in that session?

    None, but that's not relevant. Why do you need to be a dick for no reason? Remind me of me 3 years ago. People like you ruin forums. I didn't write this as a revenge post about some random guy I had never met before because he beat me in a 1/2 game. I was just interested in what other people would do/say in this situation.

     
    Originally Posted by Hughes4 View Post

    keep your mouth shut. this isn't a dilemma

    I did, but I couldn't help from feeling a little sorry for the guy who was clearly new to poker and did not know the ropes. I doubt the thought that somebody would exploit him in such a way ever crossed his mind. He was a young guy trying to have fun on a Friday night. He was being active, talking and having a good time. He left a hand or two after this BTW.

     
    Originally Posted by lordxixor101 View Post

    Even if you say something, what do you think happens? What I'm sort of surprised about here is, if the guy had more money, why not raise with 3rd pair there all-in? You know the guy will fold, and probably think he had bad luck, so he could be abused again. Flatting 3rd pair makes it rather obvious that he saw the hand.

    I chose not to say anything because I couldn't be positive the guy saw the hand and did not feel it was worth the confrontation since I was not in the hand and had previously warned the player. Just genuinely interested in what other people think about the situation/would have done. I felt pretty sorry for the guy who was showing his cards. He was clearly a young guy that was new to the game and trying to have some fun playing poker on a Friday night.

    He had more money, I don't remember exactly how much, probably around $120-200. I didn't really think about it like that. The guy beat him into the pot on the river to call. Guess he just wanted to show a big call to the table.
    Thread Starter
  11. double_kyan double_kyan is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2012 (7/22/2012 8:17am) in reply to josephf

    um if i was in the hand and this dude is flaunting the cards like that , and im pulling my pot i would freak out if any1 got involved with my shipped pot, this is cash game dog eat dog its dog eat dog among adults at a table playn cards ,u cannot have worries about another players earnings,you were there 20 minutes for all u know mr card shower had been suckn out and some players were dying to recoup from him,if u want to play a game of poker with money than u are on your own , i mentioned on a thread on here about how i warned an old lady before ,but it was a tourney and it seemed like the thing to do
     1
  12. Tilted0o Tilted0o is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2012 (7/23/2012 7:15am) in reply to double_kyan

    I think the consensus for this situation is to warn the person once. It's just the right thing to do. After that, it's up to that person to change, you can't keep telling the person over and over. If they don't take your advice and change, it's their fault.
  13. hoosier418 hoosier418 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2012 (7/23/2012 11:27am) in reply to Tilted0o

    You did the right thing , one warning . After that you're on your own . Couple weeks ago another player told me that he could almost see my cards as I moved them around . He was sitting extremly low and kind of leaning but he still let me know. I was glad he was honest enough to tell me and I have been careful about it since then. If the other guy does'nt listen it's not your fault.
  14. Dantastic Dantastic is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2012 (7/23/2012 1:11pm) in reply to hoosier418

    You tried to be honest and he continued to be dumb. I then would just laugh and carry on.
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