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Hand from the VDSE $560 last week. Opinions wanted.

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  1. RunLikeAChettah RunLikeAChettah is offline

    Posts: 335
    Joined: May 09

    Jun 16th, 2011 (6/16/2011 9:09pm)

    Ok im gonna try and remember every detail of this hand cause it has been bugging me. In vegas last week playing Venetians and couple others and this is the only hand I keep thinking about.

    $560 VDSE
    200/400 50ante(maybe 25) level 6

    My stack:24k have been mega card dead/tight, only 3bet one time, I 15bb shoved QQ in sb after some limps and won vs KT. Played my hand face up when i c/r trips in BB.
    UTG stack ~25-28k young kid, seems competent, hasnt got out of line except maybe one pot were he min raised early mp with 74s and won small pot on rvr.
    HJ stack ~ 15k young kid, seems solid, hasnt played many hands, everytime he 3bet he had it, hasnt shown down much but he has my respect.

    The Hand: UTG raises to 1000 total. folds to HJ who flats. I had just won a monster pot 2 hands ago and still stacking chips. After I saw action to me and who was in the hand I told my self Im just going to out play here since my image has to be super nit/solid. I make it 2475 w XX. Folds to UTG who flats, HJ also flats.

    Flop: AK8hh. UTG check, HJ check, I bet 3750 into ~7500. UTG thinks and calls. HJ folds.

    At this point im putting UTG on maybe AQ AJ, how he has played I believe he is c/r 88 and AK here. Do not put him on AA or KK by any means how he has played it all day.

    Turn: Kx. He checks. I am sitting motionless for about 2 min. I check. Thinking this looks huge like I filled up.

    Rvr:Th. OK. QJ got there, flush got there. He checks. At this point there is ~15k in the middle. I have about 16k-17k behind. I bet 6400.

    With information given, what hands are calling here? Im I screaming value bet? value bluff? Am I wanting him to c/s so I can hellmuth my stack in the middle? What can he seriously call her with given my image and how the betting/hand played out? He had around 20k in his stack on the rvr at 200/400.

    Opinions welcome. I will post hands and results later. Thanks for reading.
  2. TheLegend TheLegend is offline

    Salem, MA
    United States

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    Jun 16th, 2011 (6/16/2011 10:53pm) in reply to RunLikeAChettah

    IMO tanking for a long time usually doesn't indicate huge strength. That's just my experience, unless you know someone is trying to hollywood, which usually is pretty obvious.
     
  3. Demitrius100 Demitrius100 is offline

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    Jun 17th, 2011 (6/17/2011 3:10pm) in reply to TheLegend

     
    Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post

    IMO tanking for a long time usually doesn't indicate huge strength. That's just my experience, unless you know someone is trying to hollywood, which usually is pretty obvious.

    ditto
     
  4. RunLikeAChettah RunLikeAChettah is offline

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    Jun 17th, 2011 (6/17/2011 3:54pm) in reply to Demitrius100

    fwiw I always take 30sec to ~2 min when it my turn to act in a hand. So he has seen this from me about 10 time already.
    Thread Starter
  5. TILTOHOLIC TILTOHOLIC is online now

    San Diego, CA
    United States

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    Jun 17th, 2011 (6/17/2011 5:38pm) in reply to RunLikeAChettah

    i think the guy has like JJ or QQ, but ur saying he called the river so AT? i have no idea i suck

    can he call with 99 too?

    musta been a really weird hand
  6. TheLegend TheLegend is offline

    Salem, MA
    United States

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    Jun 20th, 2011 (6/20/2011 4:58am) in reply to TILTOHOLIC

     

    fwiw I always take 30sec to ~2 min when it my turn to act in a hand. So he has seen this from me about 10 time already.

    So, it doesn't indicate anything then. It's just your standard process, right?

    As for the hand itself, let's take it back to the beginning. It's hard for me to put him on AA-KK, given the action, however it isn't impossible for them to be in there. Which leaves hands like suited aces I think he'd play, broadway cards and pairs below QQs........The flop is a massive hit for your range, considering your tight image and 3bet pre-flop. Once you cbet the flop and he calls, I'd take all two pairs (doubting he has AK) out of his range, since he would have to raise them now or never......That leaves his turn range as QJhh-Ax-hh (although KQ is slim to none, considering the action). This brings us to the turn and the Kings pair the board. He checks, I very much assume to leads out all the Kings he could have, so now I'd take that out of his range and your check is fine. I might barrel again here, because we can rep a K. The river completes the draw, he checks here. Going over the previous streets, I feel he bets out his flushes, not sure he's looking to trap. You're only going to check down your ace (plus you checked the turn, AQ/AJ doesn't pull this line and your flush draw gets bet on the turn as well) here and it isn't likely you have a K. I feel like your range is very polarized here to AA-AK-88 or nothing.

    So with all the information on the table, I believe he can call with all his ace-x hands if he believes your bluffing. That IMO is where his hand lies, with top pair and with the way you describe yourself I see your river bet as a value bluff. I feel like you bet on the river with your nutted hands.
     
  7. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Jun 20th, 2011 (6/20/2011 6:23pm) in reply to TheLegend

    Prethought flop process is really stupid. If you want to squeeze make it like 3600 preflop. Bet super small on the turn as played and jam the river. As played value bet bluffing sucks balls in live poker, just jam the river anyway.
    660 1
  8. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Jun 20th, 2011 (6/20/2011 8:31pm) in reply to Pghfan987

    your line is really bad

    he's never folding any A ever...and he has AJ AQ AT a ton here. also he even have have KQ or KJ and be checking cause the flush got there

    i would guess you get a fold on this river close to 0% of the time

    also, your sizing pre-flop is way too small
    170 2 

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  9. gar2garvin gar2garvin is offline

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    Jun 21st, 2011 (6/21/2011 2:02am) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    your line is really bad

    he's never folding any A ever...and he has AJ AQ AT a ton here. also he even have have KQ or KJ and be checking cause the flush got there

    i would guess you get a fold on this river close to 0% of the time

    also, your sizing pre-flop is way too small

    All of this, anything short of a river jam is prob getting called by his entire range. Also hate when people leave their hand as "XX", I know your trying to get people to focus on the opponents range but it really doesn't help with discussion at all.
     
  10. RunLikeAChettah RunLikeAChettah is offline

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    Jun 22nd, 2011 (6/22/2011 10:37pm) in reply to gar2garvin

    Ok thank you. That is what I was wanting to hear cause I was kicking my self all week for how the hand played.

    He had AJ and called the rvr. I didnt even look at my cards till the turn and had 73o.
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  11. ACgaming ACgaming is offline

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    Jun 23rd, 2011 (6/23/2011 2:21am) in reply to RunLikeAChettah

    You saw that two young kids who were competent/solid are in the hand so you thought you would try and "outplay" by 3betting 2.4x w/o looking at your hand?
    Don't know where to start.
    Try looking at your hand first and then fold pre.
    587 
  12. RunLikeAChettah RunLikeAChettah is offline

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    Jun 23rd, 2011 (6/23/2011 3:03am) in reply to ACgaming

    Did you not read the OP? I had been playing with these guys since start of the tourny and hadnt 3 bet them one time or gotten out of line once. Im sure they both had nit/rock on me. That has to mean something right? I obv didnt play the hand well, not saying I did, but if Im playing with a young kid who hasnt 3bet me once all day much less played about 5 hands all day Im gonna give the guy some credit.
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  13. TheLegend TheLegend is offline

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    Jun 23rd, 2011 (6/23/2011 3:50am) in reply to RunLikeAChettah

     

    That has to mean something right?

    Not as much as it use to. Just in plan poker terms, it's a terrible idea to not at your cards, not just because you have clue what you have, so you don't know how to bet. Also, because you're stripping away information ON WHAT HE HAS. You just put more random cards in the deck.

    The kid read the situation very well. Save the creativity for the 20 dollar tourneys.
     
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