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Play Evaluation, river bet question

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  1. BuddyPrime BuddyPrime is offline

    Posts: 1
    Joined: Feb 10

    Jun 24th, 2012 (6/24/2012 11:34pm)

    Playing at a low stakes 2/3 NL cash game at a casino where the standard buy in was $100

    I was building my chip stack slowly without showing my hands, I've been playing pretty well, without bluffing but it took a while to accumulate my chip stack to around $500ish, and I would say my image at the table would look to be pretty tight because I've been folding for quite a while and only playing really strong preflop hands. This time, I was given the button and decided to spicen things up a bit and maybe just steal some blinds with a bet that would come out of nowhere. The standard preflop bet at the table seemed to be around $12ish so I made it a little higher around $18. Everyone on the table had around either from $100-$300 except for me and the chip leader who wasn't concerned in the hand.

    Some people limped, I raised preflop on the button with K 4 to $18. The blinds folded, the guy under the gun calls me with around $350 in chips, everyone else folds.

    Flop: 10 8 4 (some rainbow board, don't remember the suits)

    The guy checks, so I made a continuation bet of $25 to see where I stood, cause if he had two higher cards and missed the flop, he could've possibly let the hand go at this point and I'd take down the pot. He pauses and thinks for a bit and makes a call. So at this point, I suspected he might have a hand with (K 10), (Q 10), or even more unikely (J 10). It was possible he had pockets queens, in this situation but I felt he wouldve been the type of player to reraise me earlier. The player's history was pretty smooth, as in he was somewhat active in pots but he wasn't making many irrational moves or dumb moves. I thought he was a good player who seemed semi-loose and doesnt mind getting into pots with most players. So the turn came next.

    Board: 10 8 4 2 rainbow board, no flush possibility

    The guy checks again, so I was pretty sure his hand was around the range I put him with a pair of tens. So I thought I could represent an overpair in this situation, but granted it was hopefully speaking. I didn't know what he put me on, but for some reason I felt as if he was calling me down cause he was suspicious of my actions although I've been playing pretty tight. I made a bet of $55 to see if I can push him off the hand. Again it was possible he couldve been slow playing a monster, but I didn't put him on a monstrous hand like a set of 10's or 8's. I put him out of the range of any straight cards due to my raise preflop, so if he called me with j,9 then so be it good for him. So I was pretty sure he was still in the range of of (K 10), (Q 10), or (J 10).

    Board: 10 8 4 2 J

    So the board now looked relatively fine to me if I was trying to represent an overpair although I only had a pair of fours. He couldve two paired it, but by the way he checked to me on the river didn't look any suspicious to his other checks, so I had him on the same range of K10 or Q10. He takes a while and thinks, looks relatively weak and while so, I was thinking of a correct river bet to get him to fold. To him, I thought the only hand he thought he could possibly beat me is if I had A,K but I felt I could push him off his hand with a correct bet. So while he was thinking, I thought if i made a bet that looked like a value bet, he'd probably just call me down. I thought about checking it back, but really felt I could push him off the hand with the correct bet. So I thought a completely irrational all-in could make him double take twice and put more pressure and eliminate any doubts of him calling. It'd just be out of his reach to call me with about $230 behind him left. He checks, and I instantly go all-in. He thinks.. for about 3 minutes. I'm not sure about talking or showing too much, but I felt he would easily crack me down since I'm not that experience of a player yet. While this long wait I question if he has queens, to possibly but it in his mind that I might have an overpair of kings or aces. Then, I told him I'd show him call or fold, but I kinda realized my mistake of talking too much at that point and stopped talking afterwards. He calls the clock on himself, lol. He eventually folded, well at the time it looked like the correct river bet, but my question is. Would you have made the same river bet? Or make a slighter high bet of around $180ish to get him off the hand? Thoughts about the river bet and the play? Thanks.
  2. MikeClarke MikeClarke is offline

    Newtyle
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 189
    Joined: May 12

    Jun 25th, 2012 (6/25/2012 1:08am) in reply to BuddyPrime

    Firstly congrats on taking down the pot.

    Secondly, I don't like it much atall. You consistantly put him on a much better hand than you, if he was holding TK u had 2 outs to beat him if he did call. Secondly, you put all your chips in the pot with a pair of 4's, with most hands in his particular hand range having you crushed at every stage of the hand. If by chance he was holding an overpair, why Queens? why not Jacks and he just rivered a very nice set. Or 10's and he had you from the flop.

    I would look at it from another point of view, not the one where he folds and you take down a decent pot. What if all his "delays" before calls, weren't him "considering a fold" but where "would you call if i re-raised you". Let's say for example he was holding a hand, say for the sake of it he had pocket 8's. He flops a set, you bet into him. Your hand range would be possibly an overpair like you try to represent or high cards. He isn't afraid of you hitting a high card, he has a set. And he really shouldnt "fear" you making a set cos thats just a really bad way to play. So he lets you fire bet after bet into him, playing as though his hand is marginal like maybe a straight draw or overcards.

    I understand the concept of going for a bluff, but you entered a hand with the intention of bluffing and not just stealing blinds, you kept firing at a board you were probably beat on. Try to use bluffing as a backup when you miss a flop, play some suited connections (67 is v.nice) and that way you have a chance at flopping a decent hand or semi-bluffing a draw, or just bluffing anyway. To enter the hand with K4 in my eyes is just insane.

    Another note is you offered to show your cards, why? I cant see how that would benefit him or you. If he see's you bluffed him off a pot he's possibly going to go a little tilty, and it screw your image up quite a bit. Muck it like a monster and move on.

    ---- Just my 2cents.
  3. yjbrewer yjbrewer is offline

    Rapid City, SD
    United States

    Posts: 4,172
    Joined: Jan 07

    Jun 25th, 2012 (6/25/2012 3:08am) in reply to MikeClarke

    The above poster explained my thoughts but my question is why in the hell would anyone but into a 2/3 game with 100. Weekday is max there? I personally would go 4-5 with the increase in sb. In a 1-3 game I would do 300. How much did u buy in out of curiosity.
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