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Poker etiquette question...

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  1. TammiM68 TammiM68 is offline

    Oakville
    Canada

    Posts: 383
    Joined: Apr 08

    Aug 4th, 2011 (8/4/2011 12:59am)

    Is blind shoving to protect someone else's hand bad form?

    I know there will be a lot of "it depends" so, loosely, the situation is: 6 players at the table, one short stack at ~10BB in the CO. MP raises, HJ calls, CO shoves, BB calls, MP calls so does HJ.

    Before the flop comes out, the BB "blind shoves" for ~30BB. Flop comes out and MP raiser folds, so does HJ. It's now heads up between BB and CO shover.

    BB hit a set on the flop. HJ gives him crap because he would have turned a boat and proceeds to tell the BB that blind shoving is collusion (even though there was no discussion between BB & CO). BB says he did it to protect CO's hand.

    Thoughts?
  2. MYBLUEDOG MYBLUEDOG is offline

    Greenville, MS
    United States

    Posts: 1,998
    Joined: May 07

    Aug 4th, 2011 (8/4/2011 1:23am) in reply to TammiM68

    I don't understand what your question i unless there is history of these players being out of line on their action.

    Everyone should be playing to protect his/her hand.
  3. boneralert boneralert is offline

    Fort Worth, TX
    United States

    Posts: 673
    Joined: Jan 11

    Aug 4th, 2011 (8/4/2011 1:46am) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

    I dont think shoving that has the effect of protecting someone else's all-in is necessarily bad, but doing it with that express purpose is kind of unethical.

    You should always do what you think is most +EV for you. There might be unique spots where the table dynamics might encourage you to keep a shortstack alive, or at worst be the person to bust them. I don't think this is wrong, as long as you are always acting in what you think is your own best interest.

    The shove in the dark is kind of silly though. It's also stupid for this person to defend his move with the rationale he gave. In conclusion, find less goofy people to play with.
  4. MarkH MarkH is offline

    Lehi, UT
    United States

    Posts: 207
    Joined: Feb 11

    Aug 4th, 2011 (8/4/2011 5:59pm) in reply to BenFaz

    You don't say if this is a tournament or cash game.

    In a cash game getting heads up with an all in player is a legitimate strategy. In this case I think any pocket pair would benefit from getting heads up with the short stack with 40 BB already in the pot.

    In a tournament it's the opposite. You benefit from the all in player getting busted out no matter who busts him.

    If the guy really said he was "protecting the other player's hand" then it should get looked into regardless of whether or not it was a tournament or cash game because that is collusion.

    HOWEVER. I've often heard it said in card rooms when someone is betting into a dry pot in a cash game. No one believes it though. Mainly because it would be stupid if they did.
  5. douglasfryan douglasfryan is offline

    Rochester, MN
    United States

    Posts: 62
    Joined: Apr 11

    Aug 4th, 2011 (8/4/2011 6:20pm) in reply to MarkH

    there is nothing wrong with this at all that i see, the only way this would be wrong is if the 2 were friends and pooling their money together or something like that, otherwise its just poker, there is nothing wrong with betting in the dark here to thin the amount of players playing, so what if one of the folders would of turned a straight, he didnt call the flop so what does it matter,
  6. Likeabull Likeabull is offline

    SHREVEPORT, LA
    United States

    Posts: 63
    Joined: Apr 11

    Aug 9th, 2011 (8/9/2011 12:51pm) in reply to douglasfryan

    he should have shoved before the action stopped. basically he bet out of turn, but not wholly as he would have been first to act anyway. his statement sounds fishy. the HJ actually has no other complaint since he did not stay in the hand and actually saw the flop before he folded.
    Edited By: Likeabull Aug 9th, 2011 at 01:02 PM
  7. LiquidSw0rd LiquidSw0rd is offline

    Lausanne
    Switzerland

    Posts: 573
    Joined: Nov 09

    Aug 9th, 2011 (8/9/2011 4:45pm) in reply to MarkH

     
    Originally Posted by MarkH View Post

    You don't say if this is a tournament or cash game.

    .In a cash game getting heads up with an all in player is a legitimate strategy....

    In a tournament it's the opposite. You benefit from the all in player getting busted out no matter who busts him. ...


    i don't agree. even in a tournament i don't care if people get busted or not and i will allways protect my hands cause all what matters to me is my stack.
     
  8. dgillis dgillis is offline Moderator

    CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,903
    Joined: Mar 08

    Aug 11th, 2011 (8/11/2011 9:59pm) in reply to LiquidSw0rd

    no, there are times when keeping a short stack around is beneficial to you. I'm thinking mainly of single table sit and go strategy but the bottom line is if you can make a case that it helped you in some way then its not collusion its just good strategy. if your doing it because "he's my buddy" that's a different story all together.

    this brings up another valid point, if you can check blind why cant you raise blind? IDK if thats legal or not but I do know that the shover gave the HJ additional information, so he actually helped him out. would HJ been upset if he crushed the flop and all he had to was call? the shover gave him the opportunity to play perfect poker (in the game theory sense) and that's never a disadvantage.
     
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