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Are they crazy or am I?

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  1. kcd0g kcd0g is offline

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    Oct 10th, 2011 (10/10/2011 1:26am)

    OK so I'm HU in a live tourney at a local casino, $50 freezout, I have 30k vs villain's 100k, blinds 2/4k. I am familiar with villian, he's a loose calling station and not very skilled, I tend to play a more solid position game and bet my made hands hard without trying to get too tricky. Villian had snapped off a river bluff I made while 4 handed with 6th pair (pocket deuces), so his calling range is pretty wide.

    I pick up Q9s on the button and open shove, he snap calls with A8o, meh gg. My wife (who plays a little) had wandered in a few hands before, and as I'm waiting for my 2nd place money she tells me she thinks it was stupid of me to shove in that spot. I try to explain to her that with less than 8bb and down 3-1 in chips there is no way I can limp/fold these types of hands, and since he's obv raising in this spot I also can't call/fold if I don't hit, so I either have to open fold a hand that is ahead of much of his range (10-8+, J9+, just about any 2 suited cards) or shove. She ain't buying it. So I go talk to a buddy of mine at a cash table who is a fairly skilled player and who's opinion I generally respect, and he concurs with the limp/fold "strategy". Am I missing something? I understand that in a game where stack sizes aren't as shallow I should tighten my shove range and play some flops and let him make a mistake, but it seems like my line here is obvious. Anyway, your thoughts plz.
    Edited By: kcd0g Oct 10th, 2011 at 01:33 AM
  2. iamthedeck ftw iamthedeck ftw is offline

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    Oct 10th, 2011 (10/10/2011 1:37am) in reply to thearthurdog

    ya its really not close... if he is snap calling with A8 then I'm guessing his calling range is decently wide making this shove a little closer at around 12bb. Personally, I don't like to limp with less than 13/14bb (heads up obv).
     
  3. PeaceGotAces PeaceGotAces is offline

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    Oct 10th, 2011 (10/10/2011 1:49am) in reply to iamthedeck ftw

    I shove every time and i snap call with A8 too. Don't listen to your wife. Most amateur live players will give advice like limp fold or raise 3x fold ect... You have 8bb, shove or fold. i'm sure you can profitably shove ALOT wider here.
    Edited By: PeaceGotAces Oct 10th, 2011 at 01:50 AM
  4. nutbreaker nutbreaker is offline

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    Oct 10th, 2011 (10/10/2011 1:59am) in reply to PeaceGotAces

    I wouldn't think twice shoving there. You still have fold equity and he just woke up with a hand that is a pretty easy call hu. Congrats on 2nd
  5. Scarypooper Scarypooper is offline

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    Oct 10th, 2011 (10/10/2011 2:52am) in reply to nutbreaker

    Limp folding 8 BBs would be beyond awful even against an awful calling station. If your 'fairly skilled' friend is giving advice like this, don't listen to anything he says in regards to playing a short stack.

    Edit:Forgot to add the obvious, jam.
    Edited By: Scarypooper Oct 10th, 2011 at 02:52 AM
    166 2
  6. Crystal extacY Crystal extacY is offline

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    Oct 10th, 2011 (10/10/2011 6:00am) in reply to Scarypooper

    super standard spot,

    although any recreational player will never understand the math behind shuving these cards..its pretty frustrating arguing with someone bout hands like this.
  7. hoosier418 hoosier418 is offline

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    Oct 15th, 2011 (10/15/2011 3:23am) in reply to Crystal extacY

    8 blinds and heads up , I'm pretty happy to see Q9s. I've shoved a lot worse than that in similar situations.
  8. 88XIN88 88XIN88 is offline

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    Oct 15th, 2011 (10/15/2011 6:07am) in reply to hoosier418

    I love how girls think certain shoves are terrible. It's not like you can wait much longer and Q9ss is HUGE heads up with this many blinds imo. She should've been more supportive and gave u a kiss saying great job hun 2nd place u played really well. Keep it up!
     
  9. donkiman donkiman is offline

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    Oct 15th, 2011 (10/15/2011 8:50am) in reply to 88XIN88

    This hand is really your last chance to win the tourney imo. If you fold here, he's shoving any two from the button from here on out and probably calling your shove with any two as well. Look at it like this... If you fold the next 4 hands you will have lost 40% of your stack and will need to double up to get back to where you are at now (which is a hoooorrrrible spot to be in). So the question is will you see a hand THAT much better than suited Q9 in the next couple hands? Probably not. Even if your the dog side of a 60/40 or 70/30 its still worth the gamble to get to a near-even stack (not to mention all the hands you are a favorite against). Not only do I shove every time here, I probably calloff as well.
    Edited By: donkiman Oct 15th, 2011 at 10:58 AM
     
  10. 88XIN88 88XIN88 is offline

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    Oct 15th, 2011 (10/15/2011 10:36am) in reply to donkiman

    BTW most of these ppl are pretty results oriented. Your gf was just salty you didn't get 1st. They make the loss so painful don't be so hard on yourself You'll ship the next ones u play!!!

    The cash game player is so full of it with the limp fold strategy LOL. Any suited connectors/gappers, broadway, Kx, Ax, or pair is a jam here.
    Edited By: 88XIN88 Oct 15th, 2011 at 10:37 AM
     
  11. ZachL ZachL is offline

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    Oct 15th, 2011 (10/15/2011 11:07am) in reply to 88XIN88

    If flop is Q99 your friends and gf are saying great shove
  12. Jason2890 Jason2890 is offline plays plo for overlays

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    Oct 16th, 2011 (10/16/2011 4:52am) in reply to ZachL

     
    Originally Posted by ZachL View Post

    If flop is Q99 your friends and gf are saying great shove

    What if it comes runner runner A A though???

    Haha, but yeah, it's an easy shove. Given your read of the player, it's very possible that he may even call you with worse. Q9 suited is a monster here.
  13. supra1988t supra1988t is offline

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    Oct 16th, 2011 (10/16/2011 6:45am) in reply to Jason2890

    Tell the gf to stick to sandwiches and you'll handle the poker. Good shove, ul gg.
    649 
  14. OhScissorMe OhScissorMe is offline

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    Oct 17th, 2011 (10/17/2011 5:57pm) in reply to supra1988t

    Remember women are the rake. Super standard shove though. Ul
    306 2
  15. ApesAreFun ApesAreFun is offline Moderator/Euro Donk

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    Oct 17th, 2011 (10/17/2011 7:40pm) in reply to kcd0g

    You made the right play.
    And I'd say limp/folding with any stack size is awful tho. Its just such a weak move.
     906 
  16. iamthedeck ftw iamthedeck ftw is offline

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    Oct 17th, 2011 (10/17/2011 9:29pm) in reply to ApesAreFun

     
    Originally Posted by ApesAreFun View Post

    You made the right play.
    And I'd say limp/folding with any stack size is awful tho. Its just such a weak move.

    lol then what stack size do you begin just shove/folding?

    Edit: HU with antes deep in MTT
    Edited By: iamthedeck ftw Oct 17th, 2011 at 09:30 PM
     
  17. babykahuna babykahuna is offline

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    Oct 17th, 2011 (10/17/2011 9:45pm) in reply to iamthedeck ftw

    And they were suited?????? You might be crazy for even doubting yourself.
    What pray tell are you supposed to wait for? HU these orbits come pretty fast
    and you have few to spare. But then Im thinking your wife and buddy
    arent ready to grasp that concept. Rest assured you did the right thing.
    Now ask some harder questions.
    Edited By: babykahuna Oct 17th, 2011 at 09:49 PM
  18. Jwilkinson Jwilkinson is offline

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    Oct 17th, 2011 (10/17/2011 10:49pm) in reply to babykahuna

    cmon man u know the answer to this question, u just want to show your wife this thread LOL easiest shove ever, same for 9-10 suited, 4-5 suited ect, im only walking a small % of my starting hands here
  19. kcd0g kcd0g is offline

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    Oct 18th, 2011 (10/18/2011 12:31am) in reply to Jwilkinson

     
    Originally Posted by Jwilkinson View Post

    cmon man u know the answer to this question, u just want to show your wife this thread LOL

    Fuck, I'm busted. Can't get anything past you guys heh heh.
    Edited By: kcd0g Oct 18th, 2011 at 12:33 AM
    Thread Starter
  20. BenFaz BenFaz is online now

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    Oct 18th, 2011 (10/18/2011 2:11pm) in reply to kcd0g

    Definitly very standard shove.. One question though..

    Next time your wife is cooking/cleaning or doing anything in fact ect ask her a question if she is doing the right thing.. Im pretty sure you will get a different response to the one you gave her when she questioned this hand !!
     
  21. The_Grifter The_Grifter is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2011 (10/20/2011 6:24am) in reply to BenFaz

    Even "skilled" cash game players are not the best people to ask how to play 8bb.

    Folding is kinda funny and limp folding is super LOL.
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