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0.25/0.50 - TP+FD 250BB deep and I get repopped

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  1. j_farah j_farah is offline

    Mississauga
    Canada

    Posts: 2,388
    Joined: Jul 06

    Jul 25th, 2011 (7/25/2011 6:24pm)

    Only been here for about 10 mins. No read on villain.

    pokerstars Game #64983080183: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2011/07/23 23:09:44 ET
    Table 'Camilla' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: ToRn0 ($122.45 in chips)
    Seat 2: j_farah ($129.15 in chips)
    Seat 4: Eran4444 ($166.05 in chips)
    Seat 5: JareBehr ($131 in chips)
    Seat 6: Weemie2 ($56.95 in chips)
    Eran4444: posts small blind $0.25
    JareBehr: posts big blind $0.50
    ToRn0: posts the ante $0.10
    j_farah: posts the ante $0.10
    Eran4444: posts the ante $0.10
    JareBehr: posts the ante $0.10
    Weemie2: posts the ante $0.10
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to j_farah [Qd Jd]
    Weemie2: folds
    ToRn0: raises $1.50 to $2
    j_farah: calls $2
    Eran4444: folds
    JareBehr: calls $1.50
    *** FLOP *** [2d 5d Jc]
    JareBehr: checks
    ToRn0: bets $3.50
    j_farah: raises $8.50 to $12
    Bidicha joins the table at seat #3
    JareBehr: raises $12 to $24
    ToRn0: folds
    j_farah: ???

    At this point I figure I'm basically flipping with any other big draw (A4dd, 34dd, etc.). I'm behind 22 and 55, but I have some outs against those. Either way, I don't think the villain's folding very often.
  2. Arty_the_Cat Arty_the_Cat is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2011 (7/25/2011 6:58pm) in reply to j_farah

    You basically said it all OP. If you are behind you still have outs. However you have solid hand. Putting the villian on KK, AA or cooler QQ you still have outs. By playing these Deep stacked cash tables you're going to run into much better play imo.
     
  3. xxgt465xx xxgt465xx is offline

    San Clemente, CA
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2011 (7/25/2011 8:48pm) in reply to Arty_the_Cat

    At the very least I am flatting getting over 3:1 and if you put him on AA-QQ then you are flipping and getting better than the correct odds. Peeling off a card is what I would do, although I know plenty of people just want to get it in.
  4. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,121
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    Jul 25th, 2011 (7/25/2011 9:29pm) in reply to xxgt465xx

    With no reads, A4dd, AKdd, 34dd etc all seem plausible. Overpairs, especially AdAx are also likely. AdJx is possible as are sets, etc. Against this range, I think you may be slightly behind. I guess you could probably include a couple odd ball hands as well and have about 50% equity.

    My thoughts:
    -Folding seems bad.
    -If you flat and hit your draw, and he doesn't have a better draw, he'll most likely fold, so you dont get any value
    -If you get it in on the flop, if you hit you'll get value from your draw unless he has a bigger draw.

    Flatting and folding the turn is bad. Flatting, hitting the turn and getting no value sucks though. So i guess 4bet>flat>fold. I don't love getting it in for 250bbs, but seems better than the other options.

    Eh, idk this could be really bad advice. Tough spot...
     969 
  5. JustGivr JustGivr is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

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    Jul 25th, 2011 (7/25/2011 10:40pm) in reply to tyson219

    Im not a cash game guru, but this seems like the exact flop youre looking for when calling with QJdd. Tough spot being so deep, but id put in another raise with the intentions of calling a shove. Maybe its because I have some gamble when I flop a big hand like this. There are too many hands you dont mind seeing that he plays this way. Good luck all in!
  6. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
    Canada

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    Jul 25th, 2011 (7/25/2011 11:46pm) in reply to JustGivr

    Why are you raising the flop? What are you hoping to get value from?
     
  7. LiquidSw0rd LiquidSw0rd is online now

    Lausanne
    Switzerland

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    Jul 26th, 2011 (7/26/2011 10:27am) in reply to rivverkiller

    if it was for 100 bbs deep i think its cetainly a good spot to stack-off but, i think we might actually have negative implied odds for that deep of a stack given the action, but folding seems not great... so i also wonder why we raised the flop here.
     
  8. iamthedeck ftw iamthedeck ftw is offline

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    Jul 29th, 2011 (7/29/2011 10:38pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    *meant to quote rivver

    exactly this. I used to find myself in spots like this as a tournament player not being used to such deep stacks... you are raising your hand just because it smashed the flop so hard with no real plan... clearly. With the 3way pot you will run into really tough spots (ie cold 3bet above). Is villain really capable of holding an overpair here? He flatted a sexual squeeze spot pre. I'm pretty sure he has either bottom or middle set which you do pretty poorly against... he could also have 34dd or a3/4dd which you do ok against. I've come to the realization that raising these spots (referring to the 2bet on the flop) are just not very profitable unless its the nut flush draw and most preferably a gutter instead of top pair which does better against a cold 3bet on the flop range.
    Edited By: iamthedeck ftw Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:39 PM
     
  9. Parky 32 Parky 32 is offline

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    Jul 29th, 2011 (7/29/2011 11:51pm) in reply to iamthedeck ftw

    being so deep I would imagine you are facing a set and he's protecting that, or he could well have the nut flush draw if he is looking to gamble. Or, he is finding out how good his AA/KK is.
    Peel one off an re-evaluate on the turn.
    Edited By: Parky 32 Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:52 PM
     
  10. j_farah j_farah is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2011 (7/30/2011 5:34pm) in reply to SerlinSteak19

    Good point by a couple of people here about my raising the flop. I wanted to start building the pot in case I hit the turn or river since most cards that improve my hand would also freeze the action. I guess I didn't really have a big plan in case I got repopped, and I ended up in a spot where it's a bloated pot and I have a hand that is strong, but doesn't play that well against the villain's range.

    FWIW, if we were at a standard table (100 BB) I'd shove with no second thought, but being this deep gave me pause.
    Thread Starter
  11. hitthenuts hitthenuts is offline

    New Zealand

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    Jul 30th, 2011 (7/30/2011 11:16pm) in reply to j_farah

    8,910 games 0.005 secs 1,782,000 games/sec

    Board: 2d 5d Jc
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 38.990% 38.99% 00.00% 3474 0.00 { QdJd }
    Hand 1: 61.010% 61.01% 00.00% 5436 0.00 { 55, 22, AdKd, AdQd, AdTd, Ad7d }


    I only put just a couple of the nut diamond draws in the range here because i think he has a set FAR more often.
    So do you think you would continue to get action if you called $12 into ~$30 to try and bink a diamond off on the turn? I dont think calling 12 into 30 to win the 105 more behind that the villain has is too bad of an option here... If he is really that tight that you are just SURE he has a set, I think you have to flat the flop and try and hit a diamond, and fold if you miss and he prices you out.

    In any case, I think reraising here is the correct play if you think he is the type of player who is EVER doing this as a bluff, or with 'light' hands, like QQ, Jx, lower Flush draws etc... If that is the case - SHOVEL THE MONEY IN
    Edited By: hitthenuts Jul 30th, 2011 at 11:19 PM
  12. LiquidSw0rd LiquidSw0rd is online now

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    Jul 31st, 2011 (7/31/2011 1:38pm) in reply to hitthenuts

    eh.. i think after we raised this flop and get repoped... i think folding is the correct play here. like i said b4 we prolly have some negative implied odds if we bink two pairs trips or flush after that action on the flop.
     
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