I'm just curious how people play this spot. Final two tables. I'm in 4th with 16 left but 77k at 2k 4k is a solid stack but as soon as it gets to 3k/6k I won't feel comfortable with my stack anymore. The big stack, kuparinen, had been raising a ton on the bubble at another table and although he wasn't raising that much after the bubble burst, he's still a humungostack with 16 left. I'm not saying he's going to be raising any two in late position but definitely a wide range of hands. Also from what he's shown, he's not some donk who's going to look me up with A4o or something like that.
Now here's the HH:
okerStars Game #9803766996: Tournament #49446869, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2007/05/07 - 23:54:42 (ET)
Table '49446869 2' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: gstructure (51459 in chips)
Seat 2: Braisss (56590 in chips)
Seat 3: legrouzin (42393 in chips)
Seat 4: kuparinen (237402 in chips)
Seat 5: x2then (72606 in chips)
Seat 6: Daut44 (53514 in chips)
Seat 7: Roothlus (77195 in chips)
Seat 9: ael1979 (59940 in chips)
gstructure: posts the ante 200
Braisss: posts the ante 200
legrouzin: posts the ante 200
kuparinen: posts the ante 200
x2then: posts the ante 200
Daut44: posts the ante 200
Roothlus: posts the ante 200
ael1979: posts the ante 200
Daut44: posts small blind 2000
Roothlus: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roothlus [6d 8d]
kuparinen: raises 8000 to 12000
Is a reshove worth it here or should I just fold and pick a better spot?
I think I would pick a better spot just because hes obv running good to have that chip lead and could be easily holding a hand big enough to call your 12ish BB push. I just dont like reshoving on table captains as a general rule because I tend to pick bad spots and they have a hand. Im no expert at all but I would pick a better spot.
Sounds like he has tightened up and is not raising as wild as before. You are good enough to fold this and pick a better spot.
Having said that, the pot is 1/5 your current stack... if you do make a resteal attempt this is the perfect hand to do it with. And you still have fold equity.
this is a very interesting question IMO. im no expert as well, but this reshoves on late position raisers always confuse me. i too have bad luck with these, and usually run into big hands, just fortunate that I have chip lead over them so i survive.
gut instinct is to fold. what do you think he has to make this move? 22+, 109+? you could also take into account that the blinds are both covered by him, so yes, he could have virtually any two. why not repop to 30-32k? how bout stop and go?
let us know what you did eventually dude.
Honestly, this just comes down to your gut feeling. If you believe he's out of line and raising too often, but solid enough to fold, I shove here quite often. However, if you think he has tightened up and may be a bit more selective in his holdings, I'd vouch for folding.
I'm sure you've already thought about those two opinions being that you're a tremendous player, but I'm quite interested to see what you ultimately did and what your final logic was behind your play being that this is no ABC situation.
Edit: After thinking about this a little more, I would fold. This guy has way too many chips and his calling range may be HUGE if he gets any feeling that you're restealing. You have plenty of chips to fold and use your expertise to play a medium/small stack to utlimately make the final table.
I THINK THE FOLD IS DEF THE CORRECT PLAY BY MAKING THE ALL IN MOVE I THINK UR RISKING TO MUCH.
BY FOLDING UR HAND UR ONLY OUT 4000 LEAVING U AT 73K IN WHICH CASE UR STILL IN DECENT SHAPE EVEN IF I FELT HE WAS STEALING.
TO MAKE THE MOVE U SPEAK OF I WOULD NEED A BETTER HAND THAN 6 8 I DONT WANT TO BE MORE THAN A 2 1/2 TO 1 UNDERDOG IN THE CASE HE DOES HAND THATS MY OPPION TELL ME IF U DISAGREE
I think its a fairly easy fold to be honest. I've never been a huge fan of restealing (with rags) with a stack that isn't on the brink of re-steal fold equity. I think this play is much more justified with like 50k. I think there will be a ton of better opportunities in the next few orbits to pick up chips. I also feel that you should be more confident in your shortstack game, cause you are sick. Having 10 bbs is not exactly desperation mode, like many people think, let alone almost 20. Better spot~!
monster stack standard raising in mid-l pos nearing FT without any stacks behind him that he has to worry about becoming comitted to if they shove, you with 19 bbs and very live cards even if he does call, unless he's picked up the miracle big pair... go for it dooooood
whoever says the guy's "never folding" to almost 20 bbs in this sopt, unless the guy has been a MONSTER cs, im not sure how u could possibly reach that conclusion
every1 who posted before me is scared = (
It has absolutely nothing to do with fear whatsoever. Restealing rags has become ridiculously and unnecessarily popular, and I'm sure that thousands of people agree they find themselves saying "why did I just do that??" every time they bust because of it. With no external factors such as reads, bubble play, etc etc etc, there is absolutely no reason for this push other than you are a reckless impulsive gambler.
lloooooolll wowwww i was kidding about the scared part... relax every1.
i think i listed plenty of good, obvious "factors" that make this a good shove... i would probably moreso be looking for external factors that make this a bad shove, ie.the guy isnt raising much, the guy is a CS etc.
i mean... i think its pretty obvious that its not a "necessary" play and that folding isnt gonna get u critcized by any sane person... but if some1/any1 is gonna post this kind of question, i think that indicates that they are capable/comfortable with making these sort of plays if they think they are likely to get a fold, and all im saying is that you are personally comfortable with shoving a hand like 86s here, that it's a good spot to do so for a bunch of obvious reasons.
Hey Roothlus... i love this situation, but for me to answer it i need some additional information...
1. Was CL playing a ton of pots? His range of hands played?
2. Likelyness of him reshoving to a reraise?
3. What's your table image been so far? And if its tight are you willing to sacrifice that image at this point?
4. If you were to reshove for lets say 34,500 and he reshoves you all in... are you willing to put all the chips in the middle in a position where you know your probably dominated?
5. How long until the blinds increase?
Granted i'm pretty sure you've probably got 2 live cards in this situation, and in all honesty i like the reshove... however i don't like the fact he can shove any two cards and still probably be a 60/40 favorite against these two cards. SHOULD YOU DECIDE TO PLAY THIS HAND... This is one decision where you clearly must win a 60/40 in order to win the tournament. I think if you choose to repop the pot to 34,500 or whatever... your literally committing the remainer of your chips regardless.
Devils advocate - your in 4th place right now, so you can allow the other stacks to get a bit more desperate and make some looser calls. You can always wait for a better spot to get your chips in the middle.
I guess this is one inflection point of your tournament where you must make a conscience decision to absolutely play to win or play to move up and cash higher. This is entirely player dependant... however to play to win... i'm probably reshoving here 70% of the time and taking my chances.
yeah Aj i see your pionts and i know top players love shoving in certain spots they pick to be good.i do believe a play like this works sometimes either hitting or not getting called. my thing is i was watching and the guyed show some good hands downs.that is the one reason i dont think it a good play here and the fact i dont think he is folding A8 KQ or better ever in this spot.
i wouldnt call 68dd rags. it's a premium restealing hand :). i mean its one of the best hands against an over pair.
on a serious note, i think there is a time and place for resteals. some people take the play overboard and do it too much but for a medium stack that will lose fold equity soon it's one of the only moves you can do. Granted I wasn't a medium stack. I was somewhere in between a medium and big stack but that's also why I posted this. Sometimes you gotta resteal, especially in the 100r.
Also, resteals used to be much much worse back in the day circa 2005. I swear if you ever raised UGotPzd's blind(he was Halipimp back then) you could bet that he was going to reshove on you with Kx high at least 90% of the time. And all the other players started doing it as well. This was primarily because most of the players back then were pretty tight and woudl fold to anyone showing a little aggression. Also the players didn't know any better and most weren't confident enough postflop to call a raise. I know this is a little off-topic(I'm a bit ADD) but I figured I'd give a little background.
Anyways, saying restealing is overrated might be right but I do think the play has to be somewhere in your playbook for certain circumstances. Another thing, the nature of a reshove is results-oriented because you never know exactly what the guy has. You are just gambling on a specific range of hands he might have and when he has the hand you are like "why did I do that" and then you think about what could've been when in reality you could've just never found another good spot to get it in. But whenever you take the pot down you don't think twice about it.
lol @sc, I guess calling all ins for 20 BBs in multi way pots is more standard.
i think blinds increase in about 8minutes. we had only played maybe 15 hands at the table since the bubble burst but i had played a decent amount with him on the bubble and he was raising every hand. and from that piece of info i pretty much figured he would be somewhat using his stack like in late position where he was.
he probably would fold a lot of hands to a reraise. i think the most would be aj but im not too sure about that.
im never folding off anything here. if he shoves on me i'm calling but then again that's why i wouldn't reraise. id rather just shove it in his eye.
my image is pretty solid. i think i had raise 2 pots in 15 hands.
The more i think about it... the more i like the AI here. With a solid image, you put him to a decision that will, granted it won't hurt his stack likely, but should he lose this race he gives up being CL. In addition to the reshove, his odds for calling are about 1.8/1 which should have him laying down more than a few marginal hands.
I'm very curious to see how this played out.
Easy... INSTA reshove.
I think an important question that hasnt been asked is does this guy know who you are, and does he know you could be re-stealing here?
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