Full Tilt Poker Game #26241631212: $100,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (197677551), Table 60 - 140/280 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:33:42 PT - 2010/12/08 [23:33:42 ET - 2010/12/08]
Seat 1: shipthemula (9,617)
Seat 2: AshTheDonkey (17,801)
Seat 3: PassThaSHUGA (29,141)
Seat 4: Markus OwnH (36,293)
Seat 5: uuhhhicall (27,334)
Seat 6: dannylights (7,610)
shipthemula antes 25
AshTheDonkey antes 25
PassThaSHUGA antes 25
uuhhhicall antes 25
dannylights antes 25
uuhhhicall posts the small blind of 140
dannylights posts the big blind of 280
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AshTheDonkey [Tc Kd]
shipthemula folds
AshTheDonkey raises to 580
PassThaSHUGA has 15 seconds left to act
PassThaSHUGA raises to 1,600
uuhhhicall folds
dannylights folds
AshTheDonkey has 15 seconds left to act
AshTheDonkey raises to 4,125
PassThaSHUGA has 15 seconds left to act
PassThaSHUGA has requested TIME
PassThaSHUGA calls 2,525
*** FLOP *** [Ks 9s 5c]
AshTheDonkey has 15 seconds left to act

no history. thoughts?

check/shove

It's fine to 4 bet here, I actually love it here. As played I like check shoving the flop as he can't call with so much of his range, and could possibly snap you off with QQ or JJ. Check raising the flop is also a possibility but when you he shoves over your c/r your'e really left in the dark. Cbetting the flop I think is the second strongest thing we can do besides check/jamming but if he plays back at our cbet we're again stuck in an uber gross spot.

yeah i think my 4bet was a big mistake. its not something i normally do without info either. was really annoyed with myself.

 

Originally Posted by IOnlyNeed1Out

How are yall saying "fold pre" and "fold to 3 bet"? He played it fine, shouldve done the same thing if he had 27o. Grow up.

huh

 

Originally Posted by DrDankRx23

As played this seems like fun

O ya and btw this is a pretty sick strategy to balance ur 4b range with all the regs that will see this post.

qft

so you 4b this pre and you are being passive on the K hi flop w what like 1.3x pot behind?

have a plan when ur clicking buttons

Postflop, def check shove

dont like the 4bet with k10o

Ash the Funkey!! mhhhh why notttt.... but now as played, bet 3151 / call obv.

gotta love the 4 bet pre, u have double blockers to tt/ak/kk etc, once he flats the 4 bet he never has ak, seems like a pretty easy small bet call the rest off and beat qq ez game when you are ash the donkey. if you check here you deserve to be shot.....

agrii, i dont like a check, looks to strong. i lead for like 3742, and snap call and get there vs aces 90% of the time.

 

Originally Posted by moorman1

gotta love the 4 bet pre, u have double blockers to tt/ak/kk etc, once he flats the 4 bet he never has ak, seems like a pretty easy small bet call the rest off and beat qq ez game when you are ash the donkey. if you check here you deserve to be shot.....

quoted for moorman-ness

4bet sizing is much to big, would be very suprised if there is any justification for betting >1/3 pot otf since most of our inducing range is v qq/jj/1010- mostly tho, lol @ the idea of double blockers in no limit hold thems

i find it completely awesome that no one has even written down anything about passthesugha/moosedebator or how he plays. The whole deciding factor in how to play this hand optimally is based on passtheshugas base of thinking and play. How he reacts in 4 bet flops that are taken to flops, what his range might be and how he reacts with diff parts of that range is all something none of you monkeys have even mentioned. How can you become close to the optimal play without considering any of those factors? If he is a nasty mother fucker then you should probably bet the flop and never fold, in this situation the stacks and board texture are perfect to float the flop in position, and rep a KQ or KJ never folding or AA or QQ JJ jus being stubborn for villain. However if hes not as hood as were hoping for then why in the world would you ever bet/call or check/shove? You think that hes going to bet/call TT-QQ if u check, if your guys' history isnt hooded how would that ever happen.

Moorman your saying checking the flop is terrible, for you its fucking awful but with some dynamics it can 100% be the best play. Think about a hand that bets the flop in position in a 4 bet pot that we are ahead of once we check, and think about a hand that raises or floats the flop that we are ahead of and flats 4 bets pre. Vs the majority of players it would be zero, not everyone is a fkn ridici nutbag. From my experience with Moosedebator there would be very few hands in either section that could qualify, pretty much the only thing we can be getting owned by is some sick drawey type of hands 5xss 67ss 78ss Axss all of which have exceptional equity vs your hand. The rest of his range is for the most part going to play pretty stagnantly. This hand is just soo fkn ridiculous to post because it has so much to do with what is going on between you and shugah and your hand can either be like the fkn nuts or crushed if your continued against its very in between, and the strength of your hand has so much to do with how often moosedebator wants to tool out, since you seem to know nothing about his tendencies, i believe the most consistent way to gain value out of your hand would be to check flops, probably fold if he continues and gain value on future streets if it checks through. I jus doubt hes going o bluff you off your hand on the flop often at all, hes most likely going to percieve your check as strength and he probably isnt flatting TT-QQ to your 4 bet very often at all, even though he should. I know I can be contradicting myself when I say he views the flop check as strength but vs someone who isnt going to blow up to you very often at all in this spot with a worse hand, its not such a bad thing to define an inbetween hand as stronger then it actually is vs this type of opponent, makes the hand way easier to play out.

 

Originally Posted by pokerjamers

hmmm.. torn between bet/c and ck/f. i feel like there is a good chance his calling range here pre is only aa but could be mistaken as i know he is creative and capable but seems unlikely w your 4bet sizing. if we bet like 3k i dont think hes jamming anything we lose to, but not positive hes gnna just call aa.

with a no history i think just ck/f

But he's got the best pair possible on the board in a four-bet pot! If then man has flatted AA or KK (which we have blockers too) then gee-gee but otherwise bet... snap call... HOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLDDDDD!!