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$109 NL hand...help!

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  1. OrangeSpades OrangeSpades is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 35
    Joined: Mar 07

    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 1:42am)

    I know I could have smooth-called preflop here since it's early, but given that I raised and called the small re-reraise what do you do on this flop?
    $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/07/06 - 01:08:58 (ET)
    Table '93876072 31' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: johnny1430 (3320 in chips)
    Seat 2: tsunamy (2950 in chips)
    Seat 3: pulse time (5000 in chips)
    Seat 4: doubleupjoe7 (2240 in chips)
    Seat 5: Hawk0400 (2620 in chips)
    Seat 6: MAESTRO974 (2530 in chips)
    Seat 7: KraftyHands (2960 in chips)
    Seat 8: willyss (2930 in chips)
    Seat 9: OrangeSpades (2450 in chips)
    tsunamy: posts small blind 10
    pulse time: posts big blind 20
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to OrangeSpades [Ks As]
    doubleupjoe7: folds
    Hawk0400: folds
    MAESTRO974: folds
    KraftyHands: raises 60 to 80
    willyss: folds
    OrangeSpades: raises 140 to 220
    johnny1430: folds
    tsunamy: folds
    pulse time: folds
    KraftyHands: raises 180 to 400
    OrangeSpades: calls 180
    *** FLOP *** [Qd 4s Qs]
    KraftyHands: bets 410
    OrangeSpades: ???
  2. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

    Delta
    Canada

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 1:45am) in reply to OrangeSpades

    shove pre....as played obv fold flop
  3. OrangeSpades OrangeSpades is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 1:47am) in reply to frosty012

    You think just shoving preflop this early is the best move, especially against a somewhat scary small re-raise? Also, just fold with the flush draw there for 410?
    Thread Starter
  4. JksRbetter JksRbetter is offline

    Valdosta, GA
    United States

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 1:53am) in reply to frosty012

     
    Originally Posted by frosty012 View Post

    shove pre....as played obv fold flop

    LOL at shoving 120 BB to take down this pot, I can not believe that could ever be the right play here.
  5. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

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    Canada

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 1:56am) in reply to OrangeSpades

    sry just skimmed over it too fast didn't notice the flush draw...

    pre-flop it'd be read dependant for me but i think i'd still shove with your stack but i wouldn't love it and i wouldn't fault you for folding...however i think calling is the worst option but even calling really isn't that bad b/c you still have position and it's pretty easy to tell if you're ahead or not with AK on most flops, however this is a really sick spot the more i think about it i'd say you're 99% behind on that flop but i'm not sure if the math justifies a call anyways....
  6. davrow davrow is offline

    United Kingdom

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:07am) in reply to frosty012

    no need to rush it. Its ONLY AK SUITED and its LEVEL ONE at blinds 10/20. call raise pre for pot control check call flop, evaluate hand on turn
     
  7. kowboy8686 kowboy8686 is offline

    Saint Cloud, FL
    United States

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:15am) in reply to davrow

    damm tuff spot here. 3 diff times i might do 3 diff things here. im totally lost.
  8. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:17am) in reply to frosty012

     
    Originally Posted by frosty012 View Post

    shove pre....as played obv fold flop

    This might be the worst advice I ever heard.
    660 1
  9. kowboy8686 kowboy8686 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:17am) in reply to kowboy8686

    that min raise made my head hurt.
  10. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:24am) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by frosty012 View Post

    shove pre....as played obv fold flop

    This might be the worst advice I ever heard.

    lol...i agree

    but shoving pre after the re-raise isn't really that bad of an option otherwise you leave yourself with 2200ish if you fold....but i dunno that's how i play i rarely will fold AK with that chip stack
  11. kowboy8686 kowboy8686 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:29am) in reply to frosty012

    he has aa kk ak or... puke blood... qq here.
  12. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:37am) in reply to kowboy8686

     
    Originally Posted by kowboy8686 View Post

    he has aa kk ak or... puke blood... qq here.

    I don't think he has any of those hands. He either has a Q and wants to get all his chips in the middle, or he has 88-JJ and wants to see where he stands. He would reraise pre with AA or KK.

    EDIT: I read the hand wrong, didn't notice that he did reraise. I like flatting pre myself.
    660 1
  13. JksRbetter JksRbetter is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:38am) in reply to OrangeSpades

    Frosty you keep saying you would not fold with that chipstack, but it is the first level of play everyone has about the same stack. The BB i only 20 chips even if he folded pre he would still have 110 BB. I like the call pre, The flop is tricky he leads with a continuation bet here. I call here and reevaluate the situation on the turn
  14. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 2:46am) in reply to JksRbetter

    well what i'm saying is that i'd shove pre before i folded to the RR which would leave me with 2200....on the flop i'd prob just jam but i could make a case for all of raise/call/fold
  15. djohns04 djohns04 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 3:20am) in reply to frosty012

    Unfortunately it's early and you don't have any reads yet. If i thought my opponent was somewhat strong and not a call station, I would probably ship it in on the flop after his 410 bet.. You've got the nut flush draw as a back-up and I think a lot of "strong" players might lay down JJ,KK in this spot, especially early on. Although maybe i'm wrong..

    shoving pre though is definitely not right though.. wayyy too many chips.. flat calling in pos was probably the best idea as you noted.. imo
     
  16. kowboy8686 kowboy8686 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 3:36am) in reply to djohns04

    i think id 4 bet before fold and fold before call pre. hell i nevvvver fold ak but here i think fold to that min raise or go the whole way. either way i can see but fold to the c-bet on the flop is ugly.
  17. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2008 (7/6/2008 4:22am) in reply to OrangeSpades

    Ok..lets think about this...the villian's range after this VERY obv rerraise..is qq kk aa.(and QQ is doubtful)..I just cant see him doing that with ANY other hand..So.. you have 2k in your stack after calling the 4 bet..you pick up a nut flush draw..THE ONLY PLAY THAT ISNT COMPLETELY SPEWY IS SHOVING HIS BET...you have 9 outs to the flush if he has AA..12 outs if he has KK..he def doesnt have qq because he bet half the pot.. Once you get yourself in this spot, you must be ready to gamble...AND if for some reason he has AK, you can pick up this pot without showdown..

    **Preflop adjustments can definitely be made..this early i prlly just flat with ak and play the pot in position**

    And if i am goin to 3 bet..i dont make it a mini raise--make it a full 250-300...and if he shoves or reraises i would probably lay it down..you still have 100bbs.
     11
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