hi guys,my 1st post here,was uncertain on this spot,i folded,u guys think that was wrong?what should be the bottom of my calling range...?

pokerstars Game #68944345740: Tournament #542010065, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (375/750) - 2011/10/14 17:24:26 AEST [2011/10/14 2:24:26 ET]
Table '542010065 6' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: NSF CHEQUE (15393 in chips)
Seat 2: scottypeel (12230 in chips)
Seat 3: Avdeyi (8455 in chips)
Seat 4: gedhanna (5532 in chips)
Seat 5: ante_geia_AA (9115 in chips)
Seat 6: dbachini (18391 in chips)
Seat 7: sugadadd (18739 in chips)
Seat 8: Tuzinho23 (8767 in chips)
NSF CHEQUE: posts the ante 90
scottypeel: posts the ante 90
Avdeyi: posts the ante 90
gedhanna: posts the ante 90
ante_geia_AA: posts the ante 90
dbachini: posts the ante 90
sugadadd: posts the ante 90
Tuzinho23: posts the ante 90
scottypeel: posts small blind 375
Avdeyi: posts big blind 750
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sugadadd [9d 9s]
gedhanna: folds
ante_geia_AA: folds
dbachini: raises 1950 to 2700
scottypeel said, "um"
scottypeel said, "i won the melbourne champs this year"
scottypeel said, "that could be it"
scottypeel said, "i dunno"
sugadadd: calls 2700
Tuzinho23: folds
NSF CHEQUE: folds
scottypeel: folds
scottypeel said, "play most crown tourneys"
sugadadd said, "oh thats right"
Avdeyi: folds
*** FLOP *** [4h Qc 2s]
dbachini: checks
sugadadd: bets 3622
dbachini: raises 11979 to 15601 and is all-in
sugadadd: folds
Uncalled bet (11979) returned to dbachini
dbachini collected 14489 from pot
dbachini: doesn't show hand

I would probably fold.. his raise does look pretty strong maybe he has sattied into that tournament from a $1 and thats how he plays his AA/KK/QQ hands i know alot of people at the low stakes that like to show you when they actually have it.

I think if you had a read on this guy and he has been quite aggressive and thats his regular raising size i would probably just shove him. how long have you been playing with this guy for?

def should fold pre its like were set mining n we dont have the odds at all, when he check shoves he is probably on JJ/TT/AK and half the time he has a queen, but if he actually has a decent hand AA/KK/QQ/AQ why is he check jamming? surely he wants value from his hand check jamming just seems like he wants you of it and read you as weak flatting pre.

I dont hate the flat pre, but it sounds like his weird raise sizing has you set-mining considering the range you gave him, and a small hope for AK here. As played, I dont care for your flop bet here. I prefer to check back here on the flop, call a ~half pot turn bet, and re-evaluate on the river. With villains weird bet-sizing pre here, your just not deep enough to withstand much pressure IMO.

just confirm your not 'scottypeel' with a crafty hidden brag post lol

 

Originally Posted by sugadadd

yeah,it reaks of ak,jj 1010,just had me a bit put off this hand,looks simple but it has me uncertain.anyone else have anything to add?? raise pre?folding pre seems wrong.pls some other opinions..

I fold pre, you called off way too much of your stack to set mine. If you're going to flat pre i think you're better off raise calling the flop considering it's one of the better flops you can get with 99. Maybe shove if he's bad and has made this raise before or 3b call. The fact that he check shoved doesn't really mean anything, he raised 2700 PF, if he's bad enough to do that with a strong hand he's bad enough to check shove a monster.

hmm,possibly better than the raise fold i did.definitely not large enough to set mine,thanks for the thoughts...
nah was having a laugh with scotty and asked him who he was heheh

 

Originally Posted by gjallen1975

tough spot; push or fold IMO. not deep enough to set mine. 20ish BB in a turbo i prolly shove; regular event i look for better spot. think its a close spot though....

thanks,yes i sort of think your right with push or fold with this stack size,it was close though,3bet pre could be better than shoving

 

Originally Posted by PeaceGotAces

I fold pre, you called off way too much of your stack to set mine. If you're going to flat pre i think you're better off raise calling the flop considering it's one of the better flops you can get with 99. Maybe shove if he's bad and has made this raise before or 3b call. The fact that he check shoved doesn't really mean anything, he raised 2700 PF, if he's bad enough to do that with a strong hand he's bad enough to check shove a monster.

thanks mate,what you said seems good.do you think i could find other ways to win this pot post-flop rather than set mine aswell? thanks for your thought

 

Originally Posted by SwoopAE

If it's an unusual raise sizing for him then you probably played it fine, if thats his normal raise sizing then we 3bet/call preflop.

it was an unusual bet size for him,thats why i tanked a min and didnt 3bet.should i have just folded than??that seems to tight against his silly open.hmm you think the turn raise fold was ok?

 

Originally Posted by tyson219

Doesn't make a difference. Either 3b/call or shove. If you 3bet it's to 8-9k with the intent of calling a 4bet or jamming the flop. Once you commit half your stack, most villains will realize you're not folding, so it will effectively be perceived as a shove anyway.

There's no way to play this hand post-flop, not with the pot at 6.5-7k and only having 16k behind. You either need to fold pre or shove. Without any reads, I'm probably shoving 99+, AQ+ in this spot. If villain had been tight or was usually opening smaller, I probably narrow my range to TT+, AK.

thanks alot mate,guess 99 is on the fence to 1010,just wasnt sure here for some reason.so you jam in a vacuum here?

 

Originally Posted by gjallen1975

only pairs i see in villians range you beat are 66,77, 88 and you're behind TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA. You are 3-5-1 and not making the playoffs there.... but you are about 13:10 against all combinations of overs, which could inlcude AJ, AQ, AK, QKs, KJs. Anybody want to let me know how many combos that is?? and...10% of your stack size is already in the pot in blinds and antes. and you have some fold equity.

I think the next thing to consider here is how close we are to the money. If you're still two flips away from the money, i think i find better spot. It's probably good to know right here what the chip average will be at the money and final table, (total players x starting chips / places that play). If the bubble is approaching pretty quickly, I think you also have to consider the implied odds of doubling up here, in this turbo structure. i don't know that these are the bingo they seem like. In this structure, with payouts so heavily weighted towards the top, and as many runners as stars gets, i don't think you can approach every spot in terms of chipEV. Seems like you get a couple days a month or every other month that you just run enfuego, and you're counting on having your chips in the pot, quite a lot, and having your cards hold on that day. Whereas a longer structure you want to focus more on playing the player, here you want to focus as much on "playing the course." The shortest distance between two points is a straight line and you want to win this tournament taking as few flips as possible, because you can go a couple of orbits sometimes without finding a better spot which means you'll have to double up just to get back to where you are now. it's easier to win with a 38% chance once than it is to win as a 60% favorite twice (.6 x .6 = 36%), so i think to consistently win this tournament you just got to keep getting them in until you have about 1/2 what the chip average will be at the final table, then play solid poker only getting them in when your're good with solid p/f. once you shift gears, you'll probably keep getting action too. i'm not saying go spew everything, but it's very important to stay at the chip average here, and way ahead of the chip average by bubble time. you really want to be able to pressure your opponents near the bubble, iso shorty, and things like that. you can't iso shorty if the player between is going to iso you.

all in all, i think it's a pretty close spot, and your success in poker wont be tied to how you play this spot. i would need to see the lobby, know the blind structure, how many runners and how to count combos and do math to tell you what's the right move. just read a chart or get pokerstove imo...

whoa! some info there,so this means you just jam in this spot?