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  1. Pretty standard spot, with his stack he has a wide range, but the limper and the people behind me make me wonder what the right play is.

    PokerStars Game #20412512767: Tournament #108245636, $11+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1500/3000) - 2008/09/14 19:53:56 ET
    Table '108245636 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: KillerCombo7 (33754 in chips)
    Seat 2: mike_1949 (16648 in chips)
    Seat 3: KeepGivinr (30614 in chips)
    Seat 4: KK1949 (36271 in chips)
    Seat 5: dannydizzan (10022 in chips)
    Seat 6: 19royalflush (32384 in chips)
    Seat 7: Brando1979 (39830 in chips)
    Seat 8: stugats1225 (55158 in chips)
    Seat 9: putain_tapis (15319 in chips)
    KillerCombo7: posts the ante 300
    mike_1949: posts the ante 300
    KeepGivinr: posts the ante 300
    KK1949: posts the ante 300
    dannydizzan: posts the ante 300
    19royalflush: posts the ante 300
    Brando1979: posts the ante 300
    stugats1225: posts the ante 300
    putain_tapis: posts the ante 300
    dannydizzan: posts small blind 1500
    19royalflush: posts big blind 3000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to KeepGivinr [6d 6c]
    Brando1979: folds
    stugats1225: calls 3000
    putain_tapis: folds
    KillerCombo7: folds
    mike_1949: raises 13348 to 16348 and is all-in
    KeepGivinr: ????
  2. just fold it, only a pair of sixes....isolating in this case doens't make sense.
  3. i'd fold unless the big stack is limping ep a lot. thats normally a big hand
  4. JF.

    heres a tip, next time you want to post a spot like this, ask what hands you should be isolating with instead of posting what hand you already have.
  5. i think this is a fold. The fact that the short stacked shoved over an ep limp shows strength itself, and that would be for over half ur stack, nevermind worrying about ppl behind you and the limper

    pretty sure I isolate with 88+, aq+
    Raise
  6. well, looks like a flip..
    i wouldn't risk half of my stack with 66, but that's me.
    i would wait for a better hand ^^
  7. Easy and standard insta fold. Nothing to think about really.
     
  8. what?
    easy and standard for tight players.. i would fold
    but i bet there are players who push here
    i bet shaundeeb is pushing
  9. shaundeeb is not pushing there, and let me fix what you said.

    It's easy and standard for good players to fold there (tight or loose).

    The players who are pushing there, are bad.
     
  10. yeah i know,
    but some ppl push there
    im not one of those
    i agree with u, easy fold
    but just saying some ppl push, thats all
  11. UTG limper had been raising any time he had a hand, the limp was very uncharacteristic.

    The shover is pushing any ace and any broadway hand, so Im not worried about him either.

    So I guess a further question is; if I do push all in, what are the chances of someone else waking up with a hand that beats me?
    Raise
    Thread Starter
  12. if you dont fold your laptop will crash "does not compute, does not compute"
  13. Its probably a fold based on the info given.. Since you said the limp was out of sorts for the big stack.. Hes going to call the all in and at least you will gain some info on how they are playing and if they are playing optimal push/fold poker.

    As far as your last question about the chances of someone else waking up with a hand that beats you.. That should never be a concern.. You make decisions based on things that already happened and not things that could happen.
    Raise
  14.  
    Originally Posted by JustGivr View Post

    UTG limper had been raising any time he had a hand, the limp was very uncharacteristic.

    The shover is pushing any ace and any broadway hand, so Im not worried about him either.

    So I guess a further question is; if I do push all in, what are the chances of someone else waking up with a hand that beats me?

    Chances are you're flipping at best. Easy fold. You have enough chips to find a better spot.
    Raise
  15.  
    Originally Posted by moliere33 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by JustGivr View Post

    UTG limper had been raising any time he had a hand, the limp was very uncharacteristic.

    The shover is pushing any ace and any broadway hand, so Im not worried about him either.

    So I guess a further question is; if I do push all in, what are the chances of someone else waking up with a hand that beats me?

    Chances are you're flipping at best. Easy fold. You have enough chips to find a better spot.

    ^^^^^ what he said
    Raise
  16. K well I did in fact INSTA FOLD, so Im glad Im not a donkey by definition. Shover had AT, BB woke up with AK and isolated, limper folded. Not results oriented, but I turned a straight. Thanks for the input.
    Raise
    Thread Starter
  17. easy fold imo
  18. I shove, unless you know that the limper is a very solid player and wouldn't limp/fold this late in the tourney. It will cost you 16 K out of your 31 K stack to make this play, with already around 27 K in the pot. Shover likely does not shove QQ - AA, so only 77-JJ has you dominated. He is likely shoving any ace, 22-JJ, plus obviously lots of broadway cards. I think that this is a +ev shove, because a race is definitely +ev considering the dead money in the pot, and you probably dominate him just as often as he dominates you.

    If you shove and lose, you still have a little bit of FE left, and I would look to shove into an uncontested pot (preferably with a smaller stack in the BB) in the next few hands.
     1
    Raise
  19. fold. too many players behind and the limper's gonna be calling a good amount of the time here with a range that has you usually dominated.
     
  20.  
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    I shove, unless you know that the limper is a very solid player and wouldn't limp/fold this late in the tourney. It will cost you 16 K out of your 31 K stack to make this play, with already around 27 K in the pot. Shover likely does not shove QQ - AA, so only 77-JJ has you dominated. He is likely shoving any ace, 22-JJ, plus obviously lots of broadway cards. I think that this is a +ev shove, because a race is definitely +ev considering the dead money in the pot, and you probably dominate him just as often as he dominates you.

    If you shove and lose, you still have a little bit of FE left, and I would look to shove into an uncontested pot (preferably with a smaller stack in the BB) in the next few hands.

    No disrespect, but I can't see how this is good at all. The range you're putting the shover on mostly has you dominated or flipping for a lot of your stack. I play these tournaments a lot and am folding 66 here every time.
    Raise
  21.  
    Originally Posted by moliere33 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    I shove, unless you know that the limper is a very solid player and wouldn't limp/fold this late in the tourney. It will cost you 16 K out of your 31 K stack to make this play, with already around 27 K in the pot. Shover likely does not shove QQ - AA, so only 77-JJ has you dominated. He is likely shoving any ace, 22-JJ, plus obviously lots of broadway cards. I think that this is a +ev shove, because a race is definitely +ev considering the dead money in the pot, and you probably dominate him just as often as he dominates you.

    If you shove and lose, you still have a little bit of FE left, and I would look to shove into an uncontested pot (preferably with a smaller stack in the BB) in the next few hands.

    No disrespect, but I can't see how this is good at all. The range you're putting the shover on mostly has you dominated or flipping for a lot of your stack. I play these tournaments a lot and am folding 66 here every time.

    Of course there is no disrespect intended. I want to be the best $12 180 player in the world, and pretty much by defintion that means that I need to make a play that most great players would not be able to make.

    Why does the shover's range mostly have me "dominated or racing?" His range could be any ace, 22-JJ, and any broadway cards. It seems to me that he shows up with 22-55, A2-A6, or even rags, just as often as he has 77-JJ. There is a pretty decent chance that this is a race, but if I knew it was, and that the limper would fold, I would super-insta-snap shove, you are clearly getting the right price with all that dead money in the pot. There are two additional pieces of information that would make me lean more towards the shove:

    1) Even if I call and lose, I still have enough FE left to induce folds when I shove in subsequent hands without any openers

    2) I shove IF I don't have any reason to believe that the limper is a super-solid player and would never limp/fold in this spot. I see big stacks limp/fold ALL THE TIME at 180 man FTs, because they think they can "afford" to see flops with 33, 78 suited, etc.
     1
    Raise
  22. I don't really mind isolating here especially with there being that dead money in there. In $12 180 mans people make tons of retarded limps like with out intentions of trapping lots of the time time they fold for a 5x shove. It is also profitable to try and gamble to get some chips to try and take this thing down especially in a 180 where 1st and 2nd really get only decent money. That being said i would prob fold and look for a spot where i could open shove.
     
    Raise
  23. If i've seen limper limp and limp weaker hands then I iso if hes never limped before I fold.