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18 man loose call

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  1. luckierno7 luckierno7 is offline

    Posts: 723
    Joined: Dec 09

    Aug 22nd, 2010 (8/22/2010 9:42pm)

    final table; loose call?

    pokerstars Game #48503878727: Tournament #303646450, $15+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2010/08/22 8:28:08 ET
    Table '303646450 2' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: nomidi (1330 in chips)
    Seat 2: meafish (9990 in chips)
    Seat 4: Gribnogrib (1985 in chips)
    Seat 5: luckyno75 (1400 in chips)
    Seat 6: lotara8 (9290 in chips)
    Seat 8: redsn0w90 (3005 in chips)
    nomidi: posts the ante 25
    meafish: posts the ante 25
    Gribnogrib: posts the ante 25
    luckyno75: posts the ante 25
    lotara8: posts the ante 25
    redsn0w90: posts the ante 25
    luckyno75: posts small blind 100
    lotara8: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to luckyno75 [6d Ah]
    redsn0w90: folds
    nomidi: folds
    meafish: folds
    Gribnogrib: raises 1760 to 1960 and is all-in
    luckyno75: calls 1275 and is all-in
    lotara8: folds
    Uncalled bet (585) returned to Gribnogrib
    118 
  2. finewhine finewhine is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 861
    Joined: Nov 06

    Aug 23rd, 2010 (8/23/2010 11:22am) in reply to luckierno7

    It's a borderline decision. Not a bad call, but I think I'd wait. Don't like my kicker much. Would like to see someone post villain's range for his shove, just to see if you might beat his range here.
  3. MYBLUEDOG MYBLUEDOG is offline

    Greenville, MS
    United States

    Posts: 1,999
    Joined: May 07

    Aug 23rd, 2010 (8/23/2010 11:41am) in reply to finewhine

    BTN, FTA with 10bbs (easy push 38%)
    22+ Ax+ K4s+ K9o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J7s+ J9o+ T7s+ T9o 96s+ 86s+ 76s 65s
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Aug 23rd, 2010 (8/23/2010 2:57pm) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

    Have you tried running these through an ICM calculator? It only takes a minute or two to find these answers yourself....from HoldemResources.net:

    BU 31.5%, 22+ Ax+ K6s+ KTo+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s
    SB 14.0%, 44+ A7s+ A8o+ KJs+ KQo

    So it says the button should be shoving with the top 31.5% of hands...not too far from the same range that MYBLUEDOG posted. You should be calling with the top 14% of hands...A6o is just a bit outside that range. According to ICM, your call was a bit loose, but nothing particularly bad, especially if the villain is shoving lighter than this range (and he probably is).
    Edited By: grapsfan Aug 23rd, 2010 at 02:59 PM
     
  5. luckierno7 luckierno7 is offline

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    Aug 23rd, 2010 (8/23/2010 4:19pm) in reply to grapsfan

    ty; i have checked holdemresources as u told about it before but i didnt figure it out; i have found an icm calculator 4 sng; what stack sizes should i use as input for my 18 man situations? Can i use that calculator for any final table of any sng ? Can i also input another percentages for prizes?
    118 
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  6. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Aug 23rd, 2010 (8/23/2010 6:24pm) in reply to luckierno7

    At HoldemResources.net, you'll open their ICM calculator. Enter the blinds & antes. For the payout structure, you'll enter "0.4,0.3,0.2,0.1", as that's the 4-place payout table for an 18-man SNG. Enter the starting stacks of the 6 players...UTG first, then UTG+1. The villain's stack will be 4th in the table, yours 5th.

    Try it again, and let me know if you don't get the exact same ranges I did for the BU open-shove and the SB call.
     
  7. luckierno7 luckierno7 is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2010 (8/24/2010 10:12pm) in reply to grapsfan

    yuhu i made it ; i got the same ranges as u did grapsfan ty v much:)
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  8. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2010 (8/26/2010 12:56am) in reply to luckierno7

    Love the replies in this thread especially by grapsfan, who is extremely helpful as always (lol I'm such a grapsfan mark)

    Couple things to add from my point of view

    - 4,3,2,1 structure in holdem resources will do the job for 18-mans, no need to use the decimals.
    - When in doubt, use the actual payouts for the structure, so "108, 81, 54, 27" would work just as well.
    - Call wider than ICM suggests because you will need to protect your fold equity
    - Most people shove tighter than ICM suggests here, so call tighter for that reason.
    - The above two points cancel each other out.
    - At the end of the day, fold this one, but it's extremely close so don't worry much about your call.
    - Be happy that you posted this as a "close decision" because that proves that you know it was!
    Edited By: Jennifear Aug 26th, 2010 at 12:58 AM
  9. luckierno7 luckierno7 is offline

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    Joined: Dec 09

    Aug 26th, 2010 (8/26/2010 11:28pm) in reply to Jennifear

    ty v much u re both doing a great job here ; posting here helped me a lot and now that i figured out the icm calculator i m like a kid with a new toy;i really want to work on icm as i find myself often in these spots: not an awful call but slightly loose; and i dont shove enough either; but i ll study and play and then play some more
    Edited By: luckierno7 Aug 26th, 2010 at 11:29 PM
    118 
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