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  1. bukithepro bukithepro is offline

    Nagoya
    Japan

    Posts: 253
    Joined: Jan 07

    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 12:47am)

    correct play on the river?
    discuss.

    pokerstars Game #20407417010: Tournament #200800020, $1000+$50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (25/50) - 2008/09/14 16:31:39 ET
    Table '200800020 376' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: intervntion (15000 in chips)
    Seat 4: PoKiteSurfer (14950 in chips)
    Seat 5: Wodgoat (14850 in chips)
    Seat 6: coolhanddany (15000 in chips)
    Seat 7: Vegas Costa (15200 in chips)
    Seat 8: Sauce123 (15000 in chips)
    Seat 9: bukithepro (15000 in chips)
    Wodgoat: posts small blind 25
    coolhanddany: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to bukithepro
    Vegas Costa: calls 50
    Sauce123: folds
    bukithepro: calls 50
    intervntion: folds
    PoKiteSurfer: folds
    Wodgoat: calls 25
    coolhanddany: checks
    *** FLOP ***
    Wodgoat: bets 135
    coolhanddany: folds
    Vegas Costa: folds
    bukithepro: raises 265 to 400
    Wodgoat: calls 265
    *** TURN ***
    Wodgoat: checks
    bukithepro: bets 600
    Wodgoat: raises 1200 to 1800
    bukithepro: calls 1200
    *** RIVER ***
    Wodgoat: bets 2100
    bukithepro:
     
  2. SS-TP SS-TP is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 609
    Joined: Feb 06

    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 1:03am) in reply to bukithepro

    I dunno, cant see anythin other then a call

    tons of 2 pairs u beat, a str8 got there (unlikely though imo) and obv he could have a set of 8's or 5's (what he should have if he's any good) . I DB him first, if he's really good I miiiiiiiight fold. If he sucks, I call

    def dont like a raise on river though :)

    my guess is he k8s or set
    194 
  3. gboro780 gboro780 is offline

    Posts: 3,570
    Joined: Apr 05

    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 1:09am) in reply to SS-TP

    yeah i'd raise and its not close for me, had it been one of the limpers i might be more concerned about set over set or limped aa or kk. but hes in the blinds. i think your line is perfect and now i'd raise.
    647 121
  4. goofy2485 goofy2485 is offline This thread sucks.

    Tucson, AZ
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 1:13am) in reply to gboro780

    Raise and its not close for me either. HE prolly has something like A8. Or an Ace high flush draw and didn't thin k you were this strong and he's betting for value.
  5. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 5,007
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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 3:27am) in reply to bukithepro

    raise more on flop, as played raise river, looks like he has atleast Kx with 2clubs or just 2pair , likely tunred it imo
     
  6. Wawa711 Wawa711 is offline

    Cherry Hill, NJ
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 3:32am) in reply to bukithepro

    yea like boro said, he was the SB, so his range is literally any two cards, so theres tons of two pairs out there. u can eliminate KK and AA obv, so if he has 55 or 88...well, im willing to stack off to that. nows the perfect time to put out a nice little raise and valuetown his ass
     
  7. cmkpics cmkpics is offline

    Montgomery, AL
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 3:39am) in reply to Wawa711

    doesnt him being in the blind make 3-4 that more likely? its early and you dont have any info..the pot is big enough, i flat call and receive a wealth of info on the player at the same time..

    Edit: i just realized he raised when the K came on turn not ace..im def. putting two pair in most of his range..
  8. Duffy08 Duffy08 is offline

    KS
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 4:49am) in reply to bukithepro

    lately I've been calling here on the river against someoen who I have no reads on...and it's hurting my results I think.

    def. lean twoards raising for value
     1
  9. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 5:01am) in reply to bukithepro

    *** TURN ***
    Wodgoat: checks
    bukithepro: bets 600
    Wodgoat: raises 1200 to 1800
    bukithepro: calls 1200
     
  10. Claw1980 Claw1980 is offline

    Elk Grove, CA
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 6:54am) in reply to darkcheck_

    i love the turn assuming it was with the full intention of raising this kind of river card.
     
  11. GreesonEV GreesonEV is offline

    Odessa, TX
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 8:24am) in reply to bukithepro

    raise plz...

    pretty sure its 2 pair...but there's the small possibility he has 34 here... results?
     
  12. skanky980 skanky980 is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 8:29am) in reply to GreesonEV

    fold
     
  13. bukithepro bukithepro is offline

    Nagoya
    Japan

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 10:34am) in reply to gboro780

    i put him on 2pr or better. villain just bet 2100; it's 25/50 with 15k stacks. if i raise river, what hand i beat will call me? against his range, bottom set is middling IMO. so i just called; he flipped over AA88.

    after just calling, i made a comment about 'i'm such a nit' (which is ok, because i'm far from one)... and villain said, 'i wouldn't have put another chip in the pot' ... not 100% sure he folds to a min raise... but balancing the frequency he calls with a worse hand, with the frequency he reraises with a better hand... i think it's barely +ev to raise, if at all.

    that was my thinking when i called, but... gboro, duff, claw... y'all raise that riv huh... i wonder how much value i'm losing in this spot...

    edit: the fact that he c/r turn with SPTK... and saw me take a very strong line (from his POV, what could i have?) he's tricky/good; he's def a good hand reader. i think he folds to any raise on the river. and he'd def reshove w a better hand. so... i like my call, TBH...
     
    Thread Starter
  14. yellowhat yellowhat is offline

    Paris
    France

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 11:38am) in reply to bukithepro

    fwiw I just call too, he's prob not calling a raise with anything that doesnt have you beat if he's half decent even if he has aces up, his bet looks like a scared blocking, and he could just have 5s or 8s, why is it so unlikely, getting dealt a pp in the blinds is allowed.
     
  15. ExtravaDanza ExtravaDanza is offline

    Newtown, PA
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 12:10pm) in reply to Wawa711

     
    Originally Posted by Wawa711 View Post

    yea like boro said, he was the SB, so his range is literally any two cards, so theres tons of two pairs out there. u can eliminate KK and AA obv, so if he has 55 or 88...well, im willing to stack off to that. nows the perfect time to put out a nice little raise and valuetown his ass

    thats because ur a donkey and wawa :) yes i cosign 100% to this....
     
  16. ronkend ronkend is offline

    Bosnia and Herzegovina

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 12:18pm) in reply to yellowhat

    I duno buki I kind of agree with you that he def bet/shoves better and bet/folds this hand and worse here. This is like the ultimate blocker bet.
  17. lockdownpokah lockdownpokah is offline

    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 1:50pm) in reply to ronkend

    raise/call shove imo
     
  18. pharreal87 pharreal87 is offline

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 2:19pm) in reply to ExtravaDanza

    i like the call here 2...cuz if u raise and he reraises u big, how do u get away if he does have u with 555 or something.
  19. JackBileDuct JackBileDuct is offline

    Mactan
    Philippines

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 2:30pm) in reply to bukithepro

    How often do you hit your set? No way I'm not repopping there. If he has 3c4c and was on the straight and flush and made his straight then so be it. He was also lying his ass off about not putting in another chip. He hit about the best possible hand he could aside from hitting trips. Since you limped the only thing he'd have to worry about is 5's and 2's. You aren't limping AK and 8's from the button. He has two hands to worry about and you have one. You should both be willing to go broke there.
  20. AceStack AceStack is offline

    NY
    United States

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 4:06pm) in reply to bukithepro

    idk how you don't reraise river or turn w/a set on this board..beyond me.
  21. bukithepro bukithepro is offline

    Nagoya
    Japan

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 5:43pm) in reply to JackBileDuct

     
    Originally Posted by JackBileDuct View Post


    How often do you hit your set? No way I'm not repopping there. If he has 3c4c and was on the straight and flush and made his straight then so be it. He was also lying his ass off about not putting in another chip. He hit about the best possible hand he could aside from hitting trips. Since you limped the only thing he'd have to worry about is 5's and 2's. You aren't limping AK and 8's from the button. He has two hands to worry about and you have one. You should both be willing to go broke there.

    bad logic...

    doesn't matter how often i hit a set (1 in 8.5 flops)
    if he had 34cc and hit a str8 so be it? o rly?

    i DO limp 88 OTB fairly frequently w an UTG limper... after the turn action, my range from his eyes should be 22, 55, 88, 34, 85, or air.

    with his play up to the river, what are his possible holdings? 55/88/K8/A8/semibluff/air

    i'm not yet convinced raise>call on the river...
     
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  22. bukithepro bukithepro is offline

    Nagoya
    Japan

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 5:47pm) in reply to AceStack

     
    Originally Posted by AceStack View Post


    idk how you don't reraise river or turn w/a set on this board..beyond me.

    i call turn wanting more value on the river.
    if i repop his c/r on turn i'm announcing i have a set 100%... allows villain to play perfectly vs my range.... bad.
    if he checks river i obv bet
    since he bet sizeable amount on river, that's plenty value for the strength of my hand vs his range; considering, any bet on the river is EXTRA value i'm getting relative to taking the pot away on the turn.
    if i reraise on the river, it allows him to play perfectly vs my range (once again), which includes rebluff shoving just often enough that i have to call every time; and vs his reshoving range, my bottom set doesn't fare very well.
     
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  23. bukithepro bukithepro is offline

    Nagoya
    Japan

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 5:48pm) in reply to bukithepro

    however, since all the top players who've responded so far say reraise... there must be something wrong with my reasoning?
     
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  24. TheGfactor TheGfactor is offline

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    Sep 15th, 2008 (9/15/2008 7:00pm) in reply to lockdownpokah

     
    Originally Posted by lockdownpokah View Post

    raise/call shove imo

    this
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