After you showed Q5 as a slight favorite over a random hand, I would call with Q5 for three reasons.

1) I won't fold when I know I'm the favorite. Ever. Isn't the goal of poker to get in with the best of it?

2) My "tourney odds" with 20000 chips as opposed to 10000 chips are much better than the 2:1 chip count difference. That is, if my expected value in the WSOP with 10000 chips to start is, say $12000 (meaning I consider myself slightly better than the average player in the field), I think my expected value with 20000 chips to start is probably around $35000. This is true because with twice as many chips as the rest of people at the table, I can get involved in more pots with weak players and chase big pots more than I could do with 10000 chips.

3) If I lose, I can go home. That is, there is an opportunity cost with playing. Instead of grinding it out for several days and maybe not even making the money, I can relax in the comfort of my own home and play online.

Brian

The scenario is too vague. Was he UTG and you are next to act with 8 people behind you?

Is he the BB and there are several people in the pot already?

Was there some heavy action ahead of him (raise with re raise etc.

If you know you are the only one in the hand with him then it makes a big difference as to what your decision would be.

I justed wanted to keep it simple.

So let's say he was SB and you are BB and everyone folded.

I have never played the WSOP. Missed my seat last year twice by finishing 2nd in sattelites. Since I have never been there I can't say 100% for sure that I would be playing to win, and not playing for the experience of it all.

But I can say with 100% certaintly that I would be a moron to play that way. If you get to the big one and don't play to win that is just stupid.

If I make it there this year and I play that way, some one come kick my ass please.

hitMyset: "second...you probably arent better than the average player in the WSOP...sorry to burst your bubble."

I hope you aren't talking to TTTTTTTTTTTTT:
http://www.extremetilt.com/extremeti...TTTTTTTTT.html

Unless the average WSOP player finishes 10th for the whole year in UB tournaments, I am going to have to disagree.

I'd have to take option 2. I don't want to be a dog almost half the time, but any hand that is 60% or so against a random hand, if I was last to act I'd call. TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT's reasoning is solid also, but I would like the experience also and would have to be a little more sure of my hand. I'd certainly call though with at least 88+, any ace, and any 2 face cards.

Yea, Hit you obviously have no idea who your talking to...

oh and id probably call with option 2 or better....eh q5? not really likin it but apparently the odds are there...

I'm not calling a guy that has'nt looked at his cards when I can't get any read due to his not even knowing what he has, especially with a junk hand like Q5. I do however respect some of the analysis of the reasons both for and against, mentioned above.

I agree with most of what 13 Ts has to say but I would probably have a bit higher calling standards.

Probably any King with 9 or better kicker any Ace or any pair sevens and up.

It's such an advantage to have chips early, it's worth the gamble. If you lose, you lose.

Thank you.

It is very interesting reading all the arguments.

I wouldn't even know what to do myself, probably hope I get crap and don't have a tough decision on my very first hand. ^^

It's very hard to say what would be the 'correct poker decision' here.

Would you take an edge that is less than 1% but still a mathematically sound edge or do you wait for a better opportunity to get all your chips in?

Just remember, with a field of 8000 players, you have to double up 13 times to win. :)

Now here's something interesting.

Say, the blinds are 25/50, you both started with your 10k stack.

He paid the SB and has 9975 left, you paid the BB and have 9950 left.

With his push, there is 10050 in the pot and it's 9950 for you to call, so you're getting 10050:9950 pot odds to call, or 1,01:1

If you decide to call WITHOUT LOOKING AT YOUR HAND, you're obviously 50/50 to win.

Getting 1.01:1 odds on a 1:1 hand, CALLING BLIND IS +EV!

Would you do it? :)

Go all-in to see where you're at...

i think you should pick better spots unless you have AA !!!
why risking all your chips of a 2-5 day tourney in the very first hand, only because you have a donk at your table??
if you call with Ax or something like that you can walk to him and shake hands,because you r the same donk as he is then!

"JUST MY OPINION"

only because i wouldnt make a dumb call in the very first hand?

Me and other below average players could maybe make the call. Its a +EV situation, a good bet.

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT and Beanie should maybe not make the call; even though they advocate it, because they are better than average players. Phil Ivey should definately not make the call beacuse he is one of the best players in the tournament.

Sklansky and Malmouth has written much about the mathematics of tournament strategies, especially the changing chip value. Your first 10 000 chips are much more valuable than the next 10 000 chips. The payout dictates survival not risking your whole stack in only slightly +EV situations. (Last sentence is not so relevant for the first hand, but for the later stages.)

Sklansky writes in TPFAP p19-20:
"But there is another reason to eschew close gambles even early on. This reason has nothing to do with the prize structure, and in fact is something you should be aware of even if the tournament paid only one winner. What I am speaking of involves the presumption that you are one of the best players in the tournament. That being the case, you should avoid close gambles, especially for large portions of your chips. It may seem that giving up a positive EV gamble can never be right. However even from a purely mathematical standpoint, you sometimes should.

For instance, suppose I knew that tomorrow someone would offer me $200-to-$100 on a coin flip. Meanwhile, today someone offers me $120-to$100 on a coinflip. The problem is that I only have $100 to my name, and will not be able to play tomorrow if I lose today."

Sklansky then proof that taking the first bet have a positive EV of $35 but waiting until tomorrow has a positive EV of $50.

So Beanie and TTTTTTTTTT should really wait for better bets. Especially since they are very good players. (This is the true funnyness of hitMySets mockery of TTTTTTTTTTTT.)