Originally Posted by Yoohoo99

Utg pauses for like a second then doesnt hesitate to call.

I don't like it a bit, if you are gonna fold here don't show, what is your goal in showing? letting the table know you will fold on the river w a good hand and that you can be run over?

and the dude across that said bettor was bluffing might have been right if you have folded and showed before now (like I assume you have, if you showed this one you have probably showed some "big laydown" before now).

and what was the range of hands you had the villain on before you "immediately put him on Ac10c, Qc10c..."? Does he not do this exact action with any of the rest of his range? If he was drawing and missed is he going to just give up? is he not capable of bluffing the scary board/river?

your call has to be good only 37% of the time to be break-even (ignoring rake).

 

Originally Posted by EyeKnows

 

Originally Posted by Yoohoo99

Utg pauses for like a second then doesnt hesitate to call.

I don't like it a bit, if you are gonna fold here don't show, what is your goal in showing? letting the table know you will fold on the river w a good hand and that you can be run over?

and the dude across that said bettor was bluffing might have been right if you have folded and showed before now (like I assume you have, if you showed this one you have probably showed some "big laydown" before now).

and what was the range of hands you had the villain on before you "immediately put him on Ac10c, Qc10c..."? Does he not do this exact action with any of the rest of his range? If he was drawing and missed is he going to just give up? is he not capable of bluffing the scary board/river?

your call has to be good only 37% of the time to be break-even (ignoring rake).

You make a valid point. But no i had not shown any hands prior to that while he was at the table. The guy had only been playing for about 30 minutes. I had already been at the table. He was an asian kid about 26 years old. Right after the hand he got up and left. (hit and run) i like to think. I showed my hand because I was hoping he would show is. I highly doubt he was floating me with someone still to act behind me. 160 bet into about 280 i cant imagine being a bluff bet. He wants that called. He didnt strike me as someone value bluff betting rivers. K10, QJ, 910 are all some of the hands i put him on after the flop call as well as Ac10c and Qc10c. AcQc i feel raises UTG almost always. If he wanted a to bluff me I think he would have bet like 250 into 280. 160 just seems like a good size bet that he can get some value from.

 

Originally Posted by R_U_Nuts

I'm not saying the guy did not have the goods here but think about it this way. If the guy is a halfway decent player he prolly know's you didnt like that club, He could have a pair he is not real proud of. I can tell you this much if i'm in his spot and I had the nut flush draw you would have seen a raise on the flop or turn and I make that same bet with 10-j , q-10 q-k. I prolly bet alot less with a flush hopeing to get a call or I make a huge over bet to make it look like a bluff.

So you think a call was needed from me on the river? The kid was very quiet never said anything at the table. It was a pretty talkative table too. So im getting slighty more than 2.5 to 1 (160 into 420) on the river with 2 pair. So i gotta be good 29% of the time to break even.

I just think the casual call on the flop and quick call on the turn means he was drawing. I understand your thinking cuz if i had Ac10c or Qc10c im def raising the flop or the turn with a ton of equity. Maybe the fact that he called quickly and didnt consider raising could mean he had KQ possibly. He just didnt seem like a player that would bet the river there with just a Q.

 

Originally Posted by CayneB

I don't mind the laydown at all.

I absolutely HATE the idea of you showing this laydown.

i see what you're saying. I just thought that he would oblige and show his hand as well. I agree never give away any info for free.

9c10c? if i were him im not raising the flop with that hand and mayb not the turn depending on what i put the utg+1 player on

but yea im folding that river unless i know the player and have some kind of read

 

Originally Posted by Yoohoo99

So you think a call was needed from me on the river? The kid was very quiet never said anything at the table. It was a pretty talkative table too. So im getting slighty more than 2.5 to 1 (160 into 420) on the river with 2 pair. So i gotta be good 29% of the time to break even.

I just think the casual call on the flop and quick call on the turn means he was drawing. I understand your thinking cuz if i had Ac10c or Qc10c im def raising the flop or the turn with a ton of equity. Maybe the fact that he called quickly and didnt consider raising could mean he had KQ possibly. He just didnt seem like a player that would bet the river there with just a Q.

Tough spot for sure. I probably would have check raised the turn. If he checks behind and the club hits the river and you check again its not going to cost you too much to call.

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

i kinda like b/f the river...as a earlier poster said i think your giving up way to much when you lead 2 streets then check when the draw hits.

and

never showing this hand if i muck.

Would you bet like 80-100 again the river then?

 

Originally Posted by iFish

 

Originally Posted by R_U_Nuts

Tough spot for sure. I probably would have check raised the turn. If he checks behind and the club hits the river and you check again its not going to cost you too much to call.

I like this line, I think.

Agreed it's a tough spot and I'm not sold on our hand being strong enough to lead every street.

To the OP - if you were raised on the Turn are you folding?

Also, his River bet seems to really want a call.

Yeah maybe checking the turn for pot control would have been a good idea. Just with 2 ppl to act behind me and so many cards could be scare cards for me, K, A, 9, J, any club hit the river im not sure what id do.

If im raised on the turn I may let it go. prolly putting him more on 10-9 then for a flopped straight, with him probably protecting his straight against the club draw. Would be an interesting like for him to take by flatting the flop then raising the turn if he had an inside straight and club draw.

Also whoever sayd check raise turn, that seems pretty bad. Hes going to check back every draw and your not going to get value from worse.

 

Originally Posted by nyy486

Only hands I can see him showing down that you're beating are 86 and KT, both of which a turn call is unlikely for obvious reasons. Don't mind the fold, hate the show. However, I think a small bet, fold to raise line may have been profitable here and would keep you from getting pushed off a hand while still getting value out of Qx and smaller two pairs.

Would you bet $80 again on the river if you were me?

 

Originally Posted by ijstshatonu

Also whoever sayd check raise turn, that seems pretty bad. Hes going to check back every draw and your not going to get value from worse.

Yes, but if he checks behind like you said he prolly would then theres only 100 in the pot going to the river. So the 6c hits the river i can ck or maybe bet like 35 on the river, If im raised then fold. Keeping the pot small i can show down my two pair much cheaper.