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2/5 nl live aq clubs

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  1. Seaner23s Seaner23s is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 7:33am)

    Been arguing over and over with this kid at the casino about this hand please post feedback its an interesting spot....

    2/5 game:

    Guy stradles for 10 on the button, he limps AQ clubs 3 other limpers.....Straddler raises to 50, he calls, another one calls.....About $180ish in the pot.....

    FLOP: K 4 7 2 CLUBS

    He checks, other guy checks, straddler bets $200, with $425 behind......The kid with the AQ of clubs has him covered.....He tanks then folds AQ face up.....In my mind I am never folding this with 2 cards to come even though he made a pot size bet.......

    BTW guy ends up showing KJ off suit for a pair of kings......But obviously not knowing that wondering what you all think....And if he shoves he could get a lot of hands to fold no???

    Post feedback intersted to see what you all think.... THANKS!!!!
  2. Drinking Buddy Drinking Buddy is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 8:12am) in reply to Seaner23s

     
    Originally Posted by Seaner23s View Post

    Been arguing over and over with this kid at the casino about this hand please post feedback its an interesting spot....


    FLOP: K 4 7 2 CLUBS

    What game was being played that has 4 cards on the flop?
    This would be the first thing that we would need to know before we can answer.
     
  3. CalBandGreat CalBandGreat is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 8:20am) in reply to Drinking Buddy

     
    Originally Posted by Drinking Buddy View Post

    What game was being played that has 4 cards on the flop?
    This would be the first thing that we would need to know before we can answer.

    He was trying to say that the flop was K47cc. Yeah that sould be a pretty easy shove in that spot. And def raise pre.
    Edited By: CalBandGreat May 20th, 2011 at 08:20 AM
     
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 1:00pm) in reply to CalBandGreat

     
    Originally Posted by CalBandGreat View Post

    He was trying to say that the flop was K47cc. Yeah that sould be a pretty easy shove in that spot. And def raise pre.

    The "raise pre" part of this is the most important part, I think. AQs is way too strong of a starting hand to play it that passively.

    On that flop, he's assuming the straddler has AA, AK or a set, and completely discounting bluffs from that range, when he folds. That's obviously incorrect, especially considering the size of the bet. A dude who flopped a set is gonna play it slow quite a bit of the time, rather than firing out over the size of the pot.

    Since one or more overcards are likely live here in addition to the clubs, it's a BAD fold, unless there's some serious metagame action going on with the face-up fold.
  5. Seaner23s Seaner23s is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 3:17pm) in reply to Drinking Buddy

    yea K 7 4 with 2 clubs
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  6. Duff McGuire Duff McGuire is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 3:34pm) in reply to Seaner23s

    The only reason to limp with AQ sooted is if you think the straddler is going to pop it. Then you re reraise. Poorly played pre flop.

    Now that he just flatted and was bet into he only had 12 outs. And it could cost him a significant amount of his chips. With a pot size bet he has to assume the guy is protecting his hand vs the flush. He would have to assume he is beat and drawing.

    I fold too. But I would have made it 200 pre after the initial raise of $50
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  7. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 6:50pm) in reply to Duff McGuire

    Raise pre and easiest shove of all time on that flop. He's probably like 40% vs his range (44% vs Kj) and I'm sure villain will fold some % of the time, but the dead money alone from the limpers makes it an easy reshove.
     
  8. satchmo satchmo is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 7:01pm) in reply to Duff McGuire

    too little info to make a good analysis. I would assume the 'other guy' is in ep (prior to 'other limpers'), but that isn't specified. reads on how the two have been playing and if they have any 'history' haven't been specified.

    without that info, I agree with Duff that a reraise here is warranted as straddlers (especially ones on the button) can too often be raising regardless of their holdings. I also (respectfully) disagree with graps on the read on the postflop bet. plenty of live players will not slowplay (or bet with 'value' in mind) a monster with two suited cards out there-this is where we needed a read on this guy, though.

    if that's me and I had played it how it was played I'd probably jam the flop knowing that I was behind but with (probably) plenty of equity (plus (any?) FE from shipping it) as I don't usually take straddle raises too seriously. I also wouldn't say that the guy's fold was necessarily horrible either as he's only on a draw, they're definitely playing for stacks there, and if table's been tight (other than this hand)-may take him awhile to recoup.
  9. TXpoker30 TXpoker30 is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 7:21pm) in reply to satchmo

    I agree that he should have re raised pre flop, but he's building a really big pot with AQ pre, and then on flop you want him to shove on a draw, he has to assume he's behind. I don't see much fold equity in shoving over the top here against a guy who has played his hand this way. unless the guy is on complete air, you're getting called.
  10. satchmo satchmo is offline

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    May 20th, 2011 (5/20/2011 7:46pm) in reply to TXpoker30

     
    Originally Posted by TXpoker30 View Post

    I agree that he should have re raised pre flop, but he's building a really big pot with AQ pre, and then on flop you want him to shove on a draw, he has to assume he's behind. I don't see much fold equity in shoving over the top here against a guy who has played his hand this way. unless the guy is on complete air, you're getting called.

    where we're at (equity-wise) is really unknown as we weren't given a read on the villain nor how the table (in general) has been playing. I don't think any play here (other than calling) is horrible although i'd lead toward a shove with the dead money/decent equity against anything/any fold equity we MAY have (remember this is live poker).
  11. Seaner23s Seaner23s is offline

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    May 21st, 2011 (5/21/2011 3:44pm) in reply to satchmo

    Table has been really really loose....A lot of money was being thrown around....Almost $125+ in preflop everytime.....Guy's table image at the time was he was playing a lot of pots and called a lot of bets with draws.....basically total fish rarely reraised
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  12. satchmo satchmo is offline

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    May 21st, 2011 (5/21/2011 4:32pm) in reply to Seaner23s

    good enough for me. . .shove away. . .let variance decide if you're a winner today.
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