i watched this last time, im surprised stars isn't more on top of it... how is it being an actuary? i'm a freshmen in college majoring in it

thats what im planning on haha.. hopefully i can pass these tests /hijack

what exactly is going on?

 

Originally Posted by NUTZREALHUGE

i really dont see why stars would stop this.

they are paying rake, no matter what.

Because we believe they are trying to fulfill the new depositor bonus and if they continue to do so, they will get more in bonus than they pay in rake. And it's clear they are working together (collusion) which is clearly against the TOS.

It really makes one wonder if they can protect you from bots and other cheaters, if they can't even protect themselves from this shit.

I hope you reported them to stars security....

It would be an exagerration to call this some kind of epic scandal, but it is really a nontrivial pr disaster for them.

 

Originally Posted by downbylaw11

stars is aware of it, and at first they reported they were abusing the deposit bonus, but then a future reply stated that they werent attempting to clear bonuses, and were simply just sitting at a table paying rake at a table all to themselves. now, i dont know if theyre somehow making money by doing this, but the replys stars was giving some people who reported it were sorta confusing and contradicted one another. I'm sure stars is looking into this, but may be slightly more complicated than just banning some idiots for sitting at a table together and trying to get fpps

They are almost for sure 100% abusing the initial deposit bonus. you might be referring to a post I made where someone at Pokerstars with no clue, got ahold of the Email I sent. Actually there were two of the clueless guys involved.

Then you can see at the bottom where my response finally reached someone competent.....

Still it is disturbing that they are trying it again.

Let me dig that up....

<H4 class=P5_PostHeader_Main> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=center><TD vAlign=top align=left rowSpan=2> </TD><TD align=left colSpan=2>Disturbing correspondence with Pokerstars regarding irregularities at single draw............ <INPUT id=ctl00_ctl00_ctl00_bcr_bcr_bcr_ctl01_P5_FilterTo ggleButton1_ctl00_ctl04 type=hidden value=0 name=ctl00$ctl00$ctl00$bcr$bcr$bcr$ctl01$P5_Filter ToggleButton1$ctl00$ctl04> <INPUT id=ctl00_ctl00_ctl00_bcr_bcr_bcr_ctl01_FavoriteTog gleButton1_ctl00_ctl04 type=hidden value=0 name=ctl00$ctl00$ctl00$bcr$bcr$bcr$ctl01$FavoriteT oggleButton1$ctl00$ctl04> </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>By Cashweekly on 12-04-2008 3:59 PM </TD><TD align=right>Reply Quote Edit </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></H4> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=P5_PostContent_Main><TABLE height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ForumPostContentText>First to catch up those that have not seen it. There has been some funny business at the 2-7 single draw tables. A sample hand....

PokerStars Game #22610632838: Single Draw 2-7 Lowball No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/12/04 7:55:16 ET
Table 'Vesta II' 7-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: sdac118 ($14.10 in chips)
Seat 2: sbusen ($14.20 in chips)
Seat 3: kanozi ($18.25 in chips)
Seat 4: ashyak ($13.35 in chips)
Seat 5: jdirb ($15.50 in chips)
Seat 6: dsksd ($18.55 in chips)
Seat 7: hudah ($13.45 in chips)
sdac118: posts small blind $0.25
sbusen: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
kanozi: calls $0.50
ashyak: calls $0.50
jdirb: calls $0.50
dsksd: raises $2.50 to $3
hudah: calls $3
sdac118: folds
sbusen: folds
kanozi: folds
ashyak: folds
jdirb: folds
dsksd: discards 2 cards
hudah: discards 3 cards
dsksd: checks
hudah: bets $2.50
dsksd: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.50) returned to hudah
hudah collected $7.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.25 | Rake $0.40
Seat 1: sdac118 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: sbusen (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: kanozi folded before Flop
Seat 4: ashyak folded before Flop
Seat 5: jdirb folded before Flop
Seat 6: dsksd folded on the Flop
Seat 7: hudah (button) collected ($7.85)

These players are all from China, and every hand goes like this. 100 hands (or more)in a row with $8 pot and $0.40 rake. When they finish, a new group of 7 will do the same thing. I am pretty sure they are abusing the new player deposit bonus. The math on this is pretty simple. $200 in rake to clear $50 bonus x7=$350. Obv the FPPs are worth about $70 more.

OK someone trying to rip off a pokersite in a non clever way is not too original, and of course there is no way this can work right?? Well that is what I thought, and surely I cannot be the only one to write support, as this whole thing has been talked about here and on 2+2.

I can only assume my Emails went to the stoopid department of Pokerstars support. Surely these replies cannot represent Pokerstars policy regarding this matter??

I don't even know where to start in trying to describe how disturbing this correspondence is. Seriously WTF??

------------------------------------------------------------------
To whom it may concern:

This is to advise you that there is some kind of fraud going on at table Halley. Every hand is the same as this one...

PokerStars Game #<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1228426854_1>22607513518</SPAN>: Single Draw 2-7 Lowball No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/12/04 3:03:00 ET
Table 'Halley' 7-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: iasl ($9.35 in chips)
Seat 2: kosds ($12.65 in chips)
Seat 3: skuhe ($13.90 in chips)
Seat 4: azomkes ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 5: dmkse ($16.15 in chips)
Seat 6: pskta ($11 in chips)
Seat 7: vmoe ($22.45 in chips)
pskta: posts small blind $0.25
vmoe: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
iasl: calls $0.50
kosds: calls $0.50
skuhe: calls $0.50
azomkes: calls $0.50
dmkse: calls $0.50
pskta: folds
vmoe: raises $2.50 to $3
iasl: calls $2.50
kosds: folds
skuhe: folds
azomkes: folds
dmkse: folds
vmoe: discards 1 card
iasl: discards 1 card

Some kind of deposit bonus scam??

Good Luck,
Richard

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your email. We have forwarded it to the department
responsible for handling this matter. They will be in contact with you as
soon as possible.

Thank you for your patience, and for choosing PokerStars.

Regards,

Balint
PokerStars Support Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your recent email. I am sorry to hear of some of the bad beats
that you have been recently experiencing. However, I can assure you that our
shuffle is completely random, favouring or disfavouring no player over any
other. The computerized methods we use to shuffle the deck are more than
sufficient to ensure complete randomization of the cards, and complete
unpredictability of the cards to come. You can see the description of these
methods at:

<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1228427199_0>http://www.pokerstars.com/security.html</SPAN>

In addition, we track all hands dealt daily to see if there is any
statistically significant variance.

In fact, we gave the source code to two independent auditors who reviewed
our shuffle algorithm and found it sound and random. You may read the
analysis of these auditors at:

<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1228427199_1>http://www.pokerstars.com/rng_audit.html</SPAN>

We have dealt over 22,000,000,000 hands, and have freely given out real
money hand histories any time somebody has requested them. Not once has
anybody found any indication that our shuffle is not 100% random, and many
who have undertaken such studies have posted their findings to the Internet.
You may find one of them here:

<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1228427199_2>http://tinyurl.com/32ajma</SPAN>

If you have further questions about this, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

Lee B
PokerStars Support Team

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lee B, or to whom it may concern:

Hello.

I find it hard to believe support / security can be this incompetent. I wrote to inform you of obvious fraud going on against your site.

100 HANDS IN A ROW WITH $8 POTS AND $0.40 RAKE. tHESE PEOPLE ARE OBVIOUSLY STEALING FROM YOU. yOU SEND ME THIS NONSENSE??

WTF is wrong with you??

If anyone at your site cares, it is happening again right now at table Vesta.

PokerStars Game #<SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1228427062_1>22610632838</SPAN>: Single Draw 2-7 Lowball No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/12/04 7:55:16 ET
Table 'Vesta II' 7-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: sdac118 ($14.10 in chips)
Seat 2: sbusen ($14.20 in chips)
Seat 3: kanozi ($18.25 in chips)
Seat 4: ashyak ($13.35 in chips)
Seat 5: jdirb ($15.50 in chips)
Seat 6: dsksd ($18.55 in chips)
Seat 7: hudah ($13.45 in chips)
sdac118: posts small blind $0.25
sbusen: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
kanozi: calls $0.50
ashyak: calls $0.50
jdirb: calls $0.50
dsksd: raises $2.50 to $3
hudah: calls $3
sdac118: folds
sbusen: folds
kanozi: folds
ashyak: folds
jdirb: folds
dsksd: discards 2 cards
hudah: discards 3 cards
dsksd: checks
hudah: bets $2.50
dsksd: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.50) returned to hudah
hudah collected $7.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.25 | Rake $0.40
Seat 1: sdac118 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: sbusen (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: kanozi folded before Flop
Seat 4: ashyak folded before Flop
Seat 5: jdirb folded before Flop
Seat 6: dsksd folded on the Flop
Seat 7: hudah (button) collected ($7.85)

Every hand is the same as this. $8 pot $0.40 rake. I was laughing at these fraudsters thinking they would be able to successfully steal from you, but given your response, I am considering changing my line of worik.

Please forward this to someone at your company that is not a complete idiot.

Good Luck,
Richard

----------------------------------------------------------

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your email.

We have been monitoring the situation for quite some time now, and the
players don't play in a way that affects any third party. They are merely
shuffling money inbetween themselves. However, as you stated, they do pay
rake in every hand.

I can assure you that they are not being fraudulent against any players on
PokerStars or PokerStars itself, they are merely generating FPPs and paying
rake.

From our standpoint they can continue doing this indefinately. The main
point is that they aren't harming anyone.

I hope I have managed to alleviate your concerns about these players and
this situation. Please let us know if you have any further questions or
comments.

Regards,

FredrikS
PokerStars Shift Supervisor

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frederick, or to whom it may concern:

I find this activity and the responses I have recieved disturbing. Am I to understand this activity is allowed at Pokerstars??

I understand this activity has in the past been linked with new player deposit bonuses. Is that the case here, and if so does Pokerstars allow it??

Also can I participate in this activity to reach Supernova elite?? It would be very profitable for me to do so.

I am sure I am not alone in my astonishment.

Thank You,
Richard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your email.

The main question is who is the victim here.

It is not other players, THAT is paramount, yes? We take collusion and fraud
extremely seriously and wouldn't allow that under any circumstances.

It is not PokerStars, as for deposit bonuses they will generate more in rake
than they will get back in bonus. It is no way that this is a losing
proposition from our point of view, rather the opposite. They are slowly
giving their money to us.

Am I missing something here? Who is the victim?

We are standing by for your email, and are anxious to help you.

Regards,

FredrikS
PokerStars Support Team

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR vAlign=bottom><TD class=P5_PostFooter_Main><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=P5_PostFooter_Item><INPUT id=ctl00_ctl00_ctl00_bcr_bcr_bcr_ctl01_ctl10_ctl01 _State type=hidden value=value: name=ctl00$ctl00$ctl00$bcr$bcr$bcr$ctl01$ctl10$ctl 01> [Edit Tags] </TD><TD class=P5_PostFooter_Item>Report abuse </TD><TD class=P5_PostFooter_Item>Quick Reply </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD class=P5_PagerLink>Poker Discussion</TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD class=P5_PagerLink>Change View </TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><H4 class=P5_PostHeader> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=center><TD vAlign=top align=left rowSpan=2> </TD><TD align=left colSpan=2><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Re:Disturbing correspondence with Pokerstars regarding irregularities at single draw............ </TD><TD vAlign=center align=right>In reply to </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>By Cashweekly on 12-04-2008 8:59 PM </TD><TD align=right>Reply Quote Edit </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></H4> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=P5_PostContent><TABLE height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ForumPostContentText>OK since I had posted here I thought I would try again with Pokerstars. Yes this one seemed to finally someone competent. Still the others. Makes me shudder....

To whom it may concern:

I can only assume that my correspondence has been reaching the stupid department of pokerstars.

Would you please forward this correspondence to someone competent. I would suggest the security department, and poker room management.

Please tell me that this does not represent the norm at your company.

I am quite sure that I am not the only one to find the replies I have recieved so far in this matter to be very disturbing.

Thank You,
Richard

------------------------------------------------------

Hello Richard,

Thank you for contacting PokerStars.

I don't know if I should thank you first or if I should apologize for the
last couple of emails ... I guess I'll do both ...

We are fully aware of the situation, I reviewed several accounts for this
exact same issue, but I hope you understand that I can not give you the
details of our investigation, there is a post on 2+2 about it. All I can
tell you is that our security department is closing these accounts and
looking for more abusers.

Let us know if you have further questions or concerns. Thanks for
playing at PokerStars.

Regards,

FedericO.
PokerStars Support Team.

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Originally Posted by chevychase

If stars doesn't care I don't see why any of you guys would.

Why don't one of you vigilantes try and sit in and raise every hand?

Uhhh...Stars does care obviously. Unfortunately some of their people are not much brighter than you.

As far as sitting in goes, that would not be possible.

If you ever get to the Isle of Man, you ought to see if you can meet Lee B, and Fredrik S for a nice hot cup of stupid.

when the first line of their reply to you says 'Thank you for your recent email. I am sorry to hear of some of the bad beats
that you have been recently experiencing' it's kind of difficult to believe you're calling THEM stupid :-)

I got an idea for something very similar to this. PM me if you want in