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25nl spot with top set on scary flop

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  1. calvert_skans calvert_skans is offline

    United Kingdom

    Posts: 592
    Joined: Sep 07

    Dec 15th, 2009 (12/15/2009 8:51pm)

    Options when we're both this deep?

    Haven't played with FRUIT_BAGEL very much before so don't kno too much about him.

    pokerstars Game #36753235093: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2009/12/16 2:37:42 WET [2009/12/15 21:37:42 ET]
    Table 'Mellena V' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: calvertskans ($64.95 in chips)
    Seat 2: bison12 ($57.50 in chips)
    Seat 3: NLtyrant ($34.10 in chips)
    Seat 4: pN671 ($24.85 in chips)
    Seat 5: FRUIT_BAGEL ($34.90 in chips)
    pN671: posts small blind $0.10
    FRUIT_BAGEL: posts big blind $0.25
    UCSB_Georgi: sits out
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to calvertskans [Tc Ts]
    calvertskans: raises $0.50 to $0.75
    bison12: calls $0.75
    NLtyrant: calls $0.75
    pN671: folds
    FRUIT_BAGEL: calls $0.50
    *** FLOP *** [9h 8h Th]
    FRUIT_BAGEL: bets $2.50
    calvertskans: ?
  2. ThePandaExpress ThePandaExpress is offline

    Posts: 61
    Joined: Dec 09

    Dec 15th, 2009 (12/15/2009 10:08pm) in reply to calvert_skans

    i would acutally just call there. he might have a over pair and might be trying to scare you off. if the turn doesnt improve a handed straight...i would make it 8 or 9 on the turn. get some more information before you commit more chips because then if he fires another barrell at a card that doesnt make straight cards on the board then he might already have it or is just trying to steal..
  3. dannyg1989 dannyg1989 is offline

    Bingley
    United Kingdom

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    Dec 16th, 2009 (12/16/2009 4:47am) in reply to calvert_skans

    Reads/stats on any of the players would be useful.

    The donk lead is almost always weak esp in a multi-way pot so if you think hes the type to fire multiple barrels then just call here and wait for him to fire turn. Of course you have the other players to consider which is where reads would come in handy because if theyre aggressive then theyre gonna raise it up to push you both off your hands.

    He could have a whole lot of cards here and thsi board kindda smacks a BB caller in the middle of his range as 67,JQ, JhT etc are probably in there as could be JJ as a lot of people dont 3b JJ pf in this spot at 25NL. If he is passive we could also throw QQh or possibly KKh and AAh. My money would be on 78s, J(of hearts)T or 89s.

    So for this hand i like the idea of just callin down unless another heart hits or another straight card as the donk lead screams pair and a draw, if you raise you arent really gonna get called by much that youre beatin maybe a lower set or top two.

    Thats my thinkin anyway :) hope it helps
  4. mcandrews3rd mcandrews3rd is offline

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    Dec 16th, 2009 (12/16/2009 6:12am) in reply to calvert_skans

    i think i raise on this flop 100% of the time, make it $7.5/8.50 to go and i probably call a shove that i doubt is ever coming in 25nl

    you dont want to see a heart on turn which kills the action from worse hands an means ur chasing ur full house to river, i dont mind getting it in here if hes flopped a flush cooler in my mind

    guess i can be overrly aggressiv in cash but i do not like slow playin a set on the wettest boar ever
    183 1
  5. saukendar saukendar is offline

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    Dec 16th, 2009 (12/16/2009 1:59pm) in reply to mcandrews3rd

     
    Originally Posted by mcandrews3rd View Post

    i think i raise on this flop 100% of the time, make it $7.5/8.50 to go and i probably call a shove that i doubt is ever coming in 25nl

    you dont want to see a heart on turn which kills the action from worse hands an means ur chasing ur full house to river, i dont mind getting it in here if hes flopped a flush cooler in my mind

    guess i can be overrly aggressiv in cash but i do not like slow playin a set on the wettest boar ever

    ^^ This in general but go more than $7.5/8.50.

    Make a solid raise on the flop, it has to be it big enough to give you a good call for 30% equity as thats what you need to face down a made flush or str8 (you may be drawing dead but you have to discount the str8/flush). Remember you have 2 players in behind you, one of whom started with $57. If you raise to 8 or so you'll have to fold to bison12's shove. If you happen to be up against a str8/flush so be it but can't let that stop you raising - the draws are just to strong.

    With bison12's stack & you needing more than 2:1 to call his shove you need to overraise - make it ~25 (maybe even 35 if you don't feel like calling the other 10) to go. That will give you a good call vs. bison12 and an easy snap vs. any other. Str8s & small flushes may or may not fold but A flushes & either the Jh or the 7h will correctly shove/call anything, you are going to get action a good %. You can't let people darw for anything like the right price & you are too strong to risk getting bet off the pot. If you win right here - well there are already plenty of cards out :)

    my 2 cents

    [edit]

     
    Originally Posted by dannyg1989 View Post

    So for this hand i like the idea of just callin down unless another heart hits or another straight card as the donk lead screams pair and a draw, if you raise you arent really gonna get called by much that youre beatin maybe a lower set or top two.

    I disagree, Jh or 7h will call any bet and many times AhXx also even if that mostly prefers to shove. Jh or 7h will both look at this and believe they are ~54% most of the time (with outs no matter what they are up against) and correctly call anything. The AhXx hands will know their shove will have solid chance to win outright as they know where the nutz are (discounting the str8/flush).

    [edit2]
    QhJh vs. 7h6h - Ummmmm table share :)
  6. dannyg1989 dannyg1989 is offline

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    Dec 16th, 2009 (12/16/2009 3:48pm) in reply to saukendar

     
    Originally Posted by saukendar View Post

    I disagree, Jh or 7h will call any bet and many times AhXx also even if that mostly prefers to shove.

    yeah sorry i meant a bet on the river...didnt specify that. i realised my post was a bit messed up and not in the right order, had only really just got out of bed and my brain wasnt engaged! lol
  7. Aarin Aarin is offline

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    Dec 16th, 2009 (12/16/2009 6:14pm) in reply to dannyg1989

    I suck, so I rr modestly to 7$ since I think we've entered implied-value-bluff mode, especially by the time we get to the river. I'm looking for a reason to fold, FML.

    This hand seems built to kill your stack, so stabbing modestly on the flop is the only hope we have, imo.
  8. saukendar saukendar is offline

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    Dec 16th, 2009 (12/16/2009 7:42pm) in reply to Aarin

     
    Originally Posted by Aarin View Post

    I suck, so I rr modestly to 7$ since I think we've entered implied-value-bluff mode, especially by the time we get to the river. I'm looking for a reason to fold, FML.

    This hand seems built to kill your stack, so stabbing modestly on the flop is the only hope we have, imo.

    If you go $7 the math will say you have to fold a shove - sick mess that. If all the live stacks where in $34ish range you could go 16/18 but you have a $57ish stack live behind you.

    I guess you could try to play small-ball and call the flop but I don't like that line with 2 players live behind. Far to often you'll price everyone in and end up with 4 hands in & now Q, J, 7, 6, heart all bad cards. Ending up trying to Fade 1/2 the deck when you flop top set - Ummmm I'll call that a sick mess too :)

    You are going to be good a significant part of the time and be 30% from here with 7 & 10 when you aren't (discounting the str8/flush) but you have to get all the action you are going to take in on the flop as you can't continue with only 10 outs if he puts in a reasonable bet unless you've turned the boat.

    You could just fold top set - a bit passive for my taste but it is a valid line.

    another 2 cents
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