Very first hand, ive played with Jorj95 quite a bit and hes real tight multi tabler whos range is incredibly small in this spot.... what do you do?

pokerstars Game #20911598739: Tournament #112013005, $315+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/10/04 1:13:38 ET
Table '112013005 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: tinytim3434 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: JMPRODIGY (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: takstar23 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: dcraig1 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: jesse311 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: RUNNER JIM (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: AllTheWay33 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: Jorj95 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: WhooooKidd (1500 in chips)
JMPRODIGY: posts small blind 10
takstar23: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JMPRODIGY [Kd Ks]
dcraig1: raises 40 to 60
jesse311: folds
RUNNER JIM: folds
AllTheWay33: folds
Jorj95: raises 120 to 180
WhooooKidd: folds
tinytim3434: folds
JMPRODIGY: ?????

I'm sure he knows you too. His range is probably AA-QQ, and AKs. It's really up to you. He obviously knows what your range to 4-bet here is, AA or KK. So, I'd probably jam it in and sign up for another.

i dont think his range includes QQ to a 3x utg imo

ppl always have a couple percent random blow up. that ot me makes it a shove.

If he's on KK+, muck it.

 

Originally Posted by D2theRock

seriously its a sng, you really gonna fold KK there to anyone. me i take that hit if he has AA there. seriously the chances of that are so small. honestly he more likely could have AK QQ JJ. SHip it dat shizzzzz to da center son and let sng variance have at it. no way you fold there. you can cold call i suppose or ship

*resonses that show at least a little poker inteligence only please*

Obviously Jorj knows what hes doing, and so hes not going to be raising light there - but I dont see how you can count QQ out of his range but consider including AK. Regardless of the fact that its an UTG raise, it is coming from an unknown in a game full of regulars (if Im not totally mistaken), so I think QQ+ is a realistic range to assign to the 3bet there. I kinda doubt hed reraise AK at 10/20, knowing the ugly spot he'll be in on the flop with a big pot built up, but the argument that hed flat QQ doesnt sit right with me. Also, consider the level of the game and the number of regulars in it, ONLY 3-betting KK+ there would be somewhat exploitable, right? Personally Id go with it, and if you get coolered so be it, because I think his range there is more like QQ+, and if JJ or AKs happens to sneak into it, then you're looking good.

ok not trying to be rude or anything but saying JJ is in his range is beyond ridiculous. Even QQ is pushing it imo. ya it would be exploitable but cmon its a sng early stages and the only people that it would be exploiatable to would be the regs that play with him everyday not to the randos that jump n to take a shot

Calling really isnt an option in any case. And the question is this: Jorj is one of the top high stakes SNG players around. It is 10/20 (the first hand, in fact). He is not going to 3-bet, especially an UTG, without a huge hand. No, hes not some random in a $20 SNG thats going to reraise TT there. So the question here is, exactly what is his range. If its KK+, then this is a fold. If its QQ+ AK, then its a raise/push. I agree that JJ is unlikely, but I dont see how you can discount QQ there - JM, would you really flat QQ against a fish in this spot? I mean, Im 3betting QQ+ in these spots (usually not AK this early), and only JJ if I know Im up against a donkey and can likely get AIPF...I think flatting QQ to one raise is usually a pretty weak play. And if he knows how big a fish UTG is, then AK might well slide into his range, and I think its possible JJ would too. I wouldnt count on it, but if he ever shows up with JJ or AK there, then you have to go with your kings.

Just flat it, by shoving you're only going to get called by aces but you could certainly be ahead of his 3betting range considering initial raiser is a fish. Jorj will not play this hand for stacks on most flops so if he does have aces you can get to showdown easily.

I think flatting is best. While its almost like turning ur hand face up, so is shoving, as jorj will not be stacking off without AA or the other 2 kings. I think by flatting you can extract more value from the donk utg.

I really don't think you can fold. Maybe if jorj were 3 betting another solid reg, but the fact that hes 3 betting a donk, I think we can include some hands besides KK and AA, andevent if his range is still weighted to KK and AA, its gonna be enough to make folding KK bad imo.

o and lol @ that guy saying you can fold KK in a mtt but never in a sng...couldn't be farther from the truth...KK is almost never a fold in an mtt, but with all the uber nittyness early in sngs, its def a possibility

 

Originally Posted by JMPRODIGY

i dont think his range includes QQ to a 3x utg imo

So given you said this ^^^^, then later said you don't think his range includes AKs either, why are you even asking us? You've already played the hand, so you know what he had, and given you're telling us this info he obviously had KK+, so are you just trying to get us all worked up about folding KK then show us the HH and we all say... "wow nice read, nice laydown"? I'm lost.

 

Originally Posted by ChewSeeds

these posts always make me lol... its obv that OP repopped and ran into AA or maybe AK and lost blah blah blah. how often is kk ahead here? get it in and dont be so results oriented

based on jm's responses, i'm assuming he folded...

Shoving preflop like most are advocating is horrible in this spot. It lets jor play perfectly vs your range as he is never getting in AK or QQ pre for 1500 in level 1. Flat and play the flop in pos vs him and try to get to the river as cheaply as possible on any non K board. You can also flop a few board textures where you can take him off AA by the river and extract wayyyyy more value than by blindly 4 bet calling pre. His shove range obv consist of KK+ maybe even just AA lol

lol, damn u guys are ridic. thot i would post a thread about a tuff spot vs. a top sng opponent knowing that alot of you either want to or do grind sng's for a living. all good tho GL, kill the thread