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4 Bet shoved on THOUGHTS

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  1. razorpoker2002 razorpoker2002 is offline

    Owingsville, KY
    United States

    Posts: 98
    Joined: Feb 07

    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 7:00am)

    Villian has been at the table 2 orbits. We have both been very active at the table. I havent saw any showdowns from him and he hasnt saw any of mine. I raised folded to his 3bet a few hands b4 this one. Just wanted to hear some thoughts on what you think his range is and if you make the call.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #24874582462: $28,000 Guarantee (192387860), Table 34 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:40:48 ET - 2010/10/21
    Seat 1: Sandy1050 (22,717)
    Seat 2: razorpoker (104,429)
    Seat 3: Mattdb9er (67,160)
    Seat 4: kbkings (15,872)
    Seat 5: senorjoshua (53,877)
    Seat 6: 20atK-Mart (73,629)
    Seat 7: jmasterrich (28,784)
    Seat 8: made man 21 (28,436)
    Seat 9: actionTJ (65,251)
    Sandy1050 antes 200
    razorpoker antes 200
    Mattdb9er antes 200
    kbkings antes 200
    senorjoshua antes 200
    20atK-Mart antes 200
    jmasterrich antes 200
    made man 21 antes 200
    actionTJ antes 200
    razorpoker posts the small blind of 800
    Mattdb9er posts the big blind of 1,600
    The button is in seat #1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to razorpoker [Js As]
    kbkings has 15 seconds left to act
    kbkings folds
    senorjoshua folds
    20atK-Mart folds
    jmasterrich folds
    made man 21 folds
    actionTJ folds
    Sandy1050 raises to 3,200
    razorpoker has 15 seconds left to act
    razorpoker raises to 8,000
    Mattdb9er raises to 66,960, and is all in
    Sandy1050 has 15 seconds left to act
    Sandy1050 folds
    razorpoker ?????
     
  2. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,126
    Joined: Feb 09

    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 7:07am) in reply to razorpoker2002

    it's probably a fold
     1
  3. P33J P33J is offline

    Bloomington, IN
    United States

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    Joined: Dec 07

    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 7:25am) in reply to darkhawk-200

    I'd really want more of a read on the villian before I'd think about calling this.
     
  4. killingbird killingbird is offline

    Cary, NC
    United States

    Posts: 2,524
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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 7:47am) in reply to P33J

    agreed with above. COuld be a call with more history. but to early to tell. fold.
     
  5. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,126
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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 10:45am) in reply to killingbird

    i mean it's really always a fold unless he's complete nutso
     1
  6. ukaliks ukaliks is offline

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 12:58pm) in reply to darkhawk-200

    Like above. Without reads against villans shove then it's most likely a fold. A 40BB shove has got to be strong. Fold and find a better spot.
  7. TUCCI007 TUCCI007 is offline

    Albany, NY
    United States

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 4:32pm) in reply to ukaliks

    Ya Definetly a sucky spot,tuf to make that call, but maybe different line pre flop next time, and just flatting and play it post flop, obviously a spewy call out of sb and out of position, but so is 3 bet folding with a playable hand, that would Definetly like to see a flop with , so think about it next time with the marginal hands u may need to fold to 4 bets with....
     
  8. Meerkat Meerkat is offline

    United Kingdom

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 4:47pm) in reply to TUCCI007

    I really don't like anything other than a fold here...
  9. Passiveplay Passiveplay is offline

    Erlanger, KY
    United States

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 5:02pm) in reply to darkhawk-200

     
    Originally Posted by darkhawk-200 View Post

    i mean it's really always a fold unless he's complete nutso

    Pretty much this
     
  10. TUCCI007 TUCCI007 is offline

    Albany, NY
    United States

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 5:03pm) in reply to Passiveplay

    lol 4 get wat i said , i read HH AGAIN thought he was button raiser Sry. i dont know bout folding here , its one of those spots, he Proly not shovin qq+ here, looks more like mid pair which ur racin for a nice pot, could be worth that call, if he tables ak, aq, just flop a jack ftw, nowadays i may snap.
     
  11. TpocketT TpocketT is offline

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 5:34pm) in reply to TUCCI007

    Pretty sure calling here would be horrible without any kind of significant read on the guy..
  12. gar2garvin gar2garvin is offline

    Eugene, OR
    United States

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    Oct 21st, 2010 (10/21/2010 6:56pm) in reply to TpocketT

    Pffffft doubt Matt ever has it...but really just fold. And prob 3b to about 7000 to induce lighter shove from btn.
     
  13. P0KERDUUDE P0KERDUUDE is offline

    NH
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 12:15am) in reply to razorpoker2002

    definitely callable
     
  14. s.l. halper s.l. halper is offline

    Garwood, NJ
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 12:51am) in reply to P0KERDUUDE

    Villain is a capable midstakes-er and I would give it some pause.
    But this is a cold 4-bet shove of 41bbs and he can't put you on an easy 3-bet/fold every time.
    This seems like a trivial fold.

    (Oh, and if matt has "it" I hate his shove. He'd have you in real trouble if he cold 4-bet you to 18k or so with his image).
     
  15. SlayNL SlayNL is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 12:53am) in reply to P0KERDUUDE

    50/50 for mine. I'd flip a coin
  16. razorpoker2002 razorpoker2002 is offline

    Owingsville, KY
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 2:17am) in reply to SlayNL

    I elected to make the call. I figured he was capable of doing this with a wider range than normal just because he had been so aggresive since he sat down. Ended up busting in 15th when my AQ run into AT aip. thx for responces and gl at the tables

    Full Tilt Poker Game #24874582462: $28,000 Guarantee (192387860), Table 34 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:40:48 ET - 2010/10/21
    Seat 1: Sandy1050 (22,717)
    Seat 2: razorpoker (104,429)
    Seat 3: Mattdb9er (67,160)
    Seat 4: kbkings (15,872)
    Seat 5: senorjoshua (53,877)
    Seat 6: 20atK-Mart (73,629)
    Seat 7: jmasterrich (28,784)
    Seat 8: made man 21 (28,436)
    Seat 9: actionTJ (65,251)
    Sandy1050 antes 200
    razorpoker antes 200
    Mattdb9er antes 200
    kbkings antes 200
    senorjoshua antes 200
    20atK-Mart antes 200
    jmasterrich antes 200
    made man 21 antes 200
    actionTJ antes 200
    razorpoker posts the small blind of 800
    Mattdb9er posts the big blind of 1,600
    The button is in seat #1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to razorpoker [Js As]
    kbkings has 15 seconds left to act
    kbkings folds
    senorjoshua folds
    20atK-Mart folds
    jmasterrich folds
    made man 21 folds
    actionTJ folds
    Sandy1050 raises to 3,200
    razorpoker has 15 seconds left to act
    razorpoker raises to 8,000
    Mattdb9er raises to 66,960, and is all in
    Sandy1050 has 15 seconds left to act
    Sandy1050 folds
    razorpoker calls 58,960
    Mattdb9er shows [8d 8s]
    razorpoker shows [Js As]
    *** FLOP *** [5h Ah Jh]
    *** TURN *** [5h Ah Jh] [Ac]
    *** RIVER *** [5h Ah Jh Ac] [7c]
    Mattdb9er shows two pair, Aces and Eights
    razorpoker shows a full house, Aces full of Jacks
    razorpoker wins the pot (138,920) with a full house, Aces full of Jacks
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 138,920 | Rake 0
    Board: [5h Ah Jh Ac 7c]
     
    Thread Starter
  17. TUCCI007 TUCCI007 is offline

    Albany, NY
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 2:36am) in reply to razorpoker2002

    YAY SO I WAS RIGHT ! NH ya watch out for those a10s
     
  18. skeptix skeptix is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 3:19am) in reply to TUCCI007

    For serious?

    Calling is horrible.

    But good job on finding a flip, AND then winning it.
  19. drunk_bunny drunk_bunny is offline

    Posts: 206
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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 1:31pm) in reply to yarbles

    cooler for the joker
    nc
  20. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
    Canada

    Posts: 6,350
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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 5:32pm) in reply to drunk_bunny

    Considering Sandy probably isn't raise/folding that often given his stack, and you can never be 3 bet/folding vs. Sandy, Mattdb9er's cold 4 betting range is going to be pretttttty tight. Congrats though on getting it in vs. the complete basement of his range and being flipping because he has you crushed overall.
     
  21. rainmanrcp rainmanrcp is offline

    Wilmington, NC
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 6:24pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    yeah i hate this :X Tbh I'm probably only calling here with JJ+ And not even sure if I Like calling with Aq.
  22. peanut172 peanut172 is offline

    Durham
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 205
    Joined: Jan 10

    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 8:51pm) in reply to rainmanrcp

    yeah this is a fold for me, am calling on AK+ JJ+....because of the early raiser only having 13BBs behind the 4bet shoving range is very tight as you would be thinking a guy UTG min raising with 15 BBs is soo strong
    883 
  23. gar2garvin gar2garvin is offline

    Eugene, OR
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 8:59pm) in reply to peanut172

    AQo+, TT+...Matt is 4b inducing with hands like AK and JJ+ imo
     
  24. peanut172 peanut172 is offline

    Durham
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 205
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    Oct 22nd, 2010 (10/22/2010 9:22pm) in reply to gar2garvin

    sick brag about winning flips though
    883 
  25. mattdb9er mattdb9er is offline

    San Ramon, CA
    United States

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    Oct 23rd, 2010 (10/23/2010 7:58pm) in reply to peanut172

    i remember this hand , good call, nh flipaments , hope u went on to ship this mtt?
     
  26. pinishe45 pinishe45 is offline

    London
    Canada

    Posts: 622
    Joined: Sep 08

    Oct 23rd, 2010 (10/23/2010 8:08pm) in reply to mattdb9er

    ya i dont think matt is shipping in ak kk qq.....but i dont really like calling off here vs a cold4bet...way 2 win race tho :)
    573 
  27. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
    Canada

    Posts: 6,350
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 23rd, 2010 (10/23/2010 8:45pm) in reply to pinishe45

    Matt should definately be shoving his whole range here. Making it 18k looks so absurdly strong considering stack size of the original opener. He is making 18k as a bluff 0% of the time and would be jamming all of his mediocore 4 betting hands like ajs, kqs, 88-jj. Obviously balancing ranges isn't as important in $26 mtts (i think this is a 26 bucker) but I'd be hero folding a lot more often if the bb cold 4 cib'd on me without history of being absurd.
     
  28. Gettin Daize Gettin Daize is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Oct 23rd, 2010 (10/23/2010 8:52pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    lol try having a plan b4 u 3bet
    2 211 
  29. Jymaster0011 Jymaster0011 is offline

    Posts: 310
    Joined: Mar 09

    Oct 23rd, 2010 (10/23/2010 9:03pm) in reply to Gettin Daize

     
    Originally Posted by Gettin Daize View Post

    lol try having a plan b4 u 3bet

    I think he may be on to something here....
    114 31
  30. pinishe45 pinishe45 is offline

    London
    Canada

    Posts: 622
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    Oct 23rd, 2010 (10/23/2010 9:16pm) in reply to Gettin Daize

     
    Originally Posted by Gettin Daize View Post

    lol try having a plan b4 u 3bet

    ur plan doesnt change when nu get COLD 4b shoved
    573 
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