Hmm, if he's tight like you say he is and sees a UTG raise and a 2nd post call, his range obv has to be pretty tight here. If you can include JJ and possibly TT in his range here you can get it in pre. Kinda a tough spot though tbh.

loooooool what? You're playin under another screen name?

I dont think a Re-raise is a good play at all here.... You are never getting him to fold AK or he has u crushed so I FLAT and set mine... u are deep enough to call and check/fold flop without a Q or big drw... IMO with your read that he is tight and showed a ton of strength your best line would be Call>Fold>Raise.

he was extremely tight in the rebuy period. he quaded up one hand and then won a big hand set vs. set to get to 20k.

He's pretty tight, but is he incapable of squeezing you here with 77 or therabouts? There is little case for folding....you have to repop him nice and strong. You're going all the way with this hand.

Calling is horrendous??? I cant disagree more... Going by the OP knowledge of the villain I have to give him some credit for a hand... and why do we have get it all in with QQ with 80BB's.. its still way early in this tourney dont care if it is a 3R... GO by what your reads are not what tournament it is.... IF a guy doesnt play a hand for 3 hours and all a sudden re-raises 3 limpers from the button and u have JJ in the SB are u shoving? why not go play roulette if you only want to gamble

 

Originally Posted by jnelson214

Calling is horrendous??? I cant disagree more... Going by the OP knowledge of the villain I have to give him some credit for a hand... and why do we have get it all in with QQ with 80BB's.. its still way early in this tourney dont care if it is a 3R... GO by what your reads are not what tournament it is.... IF a guy doesnt play a hand for 3 hours and all a sudden re-raises 3 limpers from the button and u have JJ in the SB are u shoving? why not go play roulette if you only want to gamble

3 hours is one thing...30 minutes into the non-rebuy part of the 3r is another. just cause he was "tight" during the first hour does NOT mean he's a tight player. there's some decent stacks at this table, his table was probably loose and he chose to sit back and wait for hands, just cause he didn't open shove every hand is not indicative of his play after the rebuy period

u said earlier, to raise to 6400 and call shove, could i just insta shove? this was just a really really hard spot for me and i have done some good things in poker and just trying to get better.

I never wanted to see a fold.... I thought flatting is better for numerous reasons..
1. flop 663 check/call turn same or could go check/check....

I am usualy under the same thinking you are is we have QQ and it is fairly disguised so we could 4 bet.... but wait he shoves us the pile and we call??///??? what? cant have to fold so I have been trying to play a smalll ball style.. As far as position, welll that is a bad part so maybe thats another reason the call check/fold to a sick flop... 35% of the time an over is going to hit.... on pokerstars its like 88% (hahaha) but seriously I just think we are beat here enough to not go broke with QQ preflop for 80BB's

you can't play small ball when you are oop against a bigger stack than yours with a hand that is gonna see over-cards 40% of the time, not to mention the fact that he's not gonna pay you off unless you flop perfect. you're really praying for a 7 high flop and that he has TT-JJ. even if you flop a set, you're praying that he has KK or AA, or he has AK and hits an A or K as well. a Q high flop gets JJ and lower to fold, as well as AK...i.e. losing value from hands that you beat. 4 bet and call a shove has got to be better than shoving 15k on a 2200 bet.

hi appst08, I think you could have repopped rather than flatting your QQ vs the guy who 3x'ed UTG. If i remember rightly he had only just over 4k starting the hand. This other hand with 99 looks like an ez call.

The way you played the hand, I think you have to 4-bet here -- if you had 3bet initially and then he 4-bet over the top, I think you can make a better case for folding QQ. But you're far too often ahead here - he could be squeezing, or just raising to isolate the initial lag in position, or just figure that he can take it down with a medium pair or AQ since you haven't shown strength and he may feel, like you do, that the initial raiser is LAG.

I wouldn't shove, because then you're less likely to get calls from hands you have crushed which, for the reasons described above, he might have 3-bet with, and your shove will get called by AK which might instead just call a raise and then fold on a non-AK rag flop when you push then. You need to raise enough to be committed though if he shoves preflop - raise to around 7000, imo, call shove.

The disadvantage of not shoving is that you risk being outplayed if the flop is really ugly, but I think that's outweighed by the advantages.

Note that you're only in this position because of your smoothcall - that being the case, although it's probably a mistake based upon the frequency you're ahead here vs behind, I don't hate a fold here because that tournament offers so many easy opportunities to chip up at that point in the tournament - as you said, you're so deep here and people play so badly after the rebuy period that I don't hate just avoiding the difficult decision, folding, and getting back to accumulating easy chips.

That said, I still 4bet here

 

Originally Posted by Desslock

The way you played the hand, I think you have to 4-bet here -- if you had 3bet initially and then he 4-bet over the top, I think you can make a better case for folding QQ. But you're far too often ahead here - he could be squeezing, or just raising to isolate the initial lag in position, or just figure that he can take it down with a medium pair or AQ since you haven't shown strength and he may feel, like you do, that the initial raiser is LAG.

I wouldn't shove, because then you're less likely to get calls from hands you have crushed which, for the reasons described above, he might have 3-bet with, and your shove will get called by AK which might instead just call a raise and then fold on a non-AK rag flop when you push then. You need to raise enough to be committed though if he shoves preflop - raise to around 7000, imo, call shove.

The disadvantage of not shoving is that you risk being outplayed if the flop is really ugly, but I think that's outweighed by the advantages.

Note that you're only in this position because of your smoothcall - that being the case, although it's probably a mistake based upon the frequency you're ahead here vs behind, I don't hate a fold here because that tournament offers so many easy opportunities to chip up at that point in the tournament - as you said, you're so deep here and people play so badly after the rebuy period that I don't hate just avoiding the difficult decision, folding, and getting back to accumulating easy chips.

That said, I still 4bet here

^^ OK well NOW that you mention the initial smooth call... I think a 3 bet would have been best and if that had happened you would have alot more info how to go forward if he still 4 bets you.... since you screwed that up I think you still have to play it safe... DOnt go broke to a better hand cuz you wanted to get crafty against a UTG LAGGTARD.... make up for the bad play with a safe one and move on.. you still have 80BB's is this not a consideration at all. the diff between 80 and 160BB is what at this point of the 3r? dont play them enough to know...

 

Originally Posted by jnelson214

 

Originally Posted by Desslock

The way you played the hand, I think you have to 4-bet here -- if you had 3bet initially and then he 4-bet over the top, I think you can make a better case for folding QQ. But you're far too often ahead here - he could be squeezing, or just raising to isolate the initial lag in position, or just figure that he can take it down with a medium pair or AQ since you haven't shown strength and he may feel, like you do, that the initial raiser is LAG.

I wouldn't shove, because then you're less likely to get calls from hands you have crushed which, for the reasons described above, he might have 3-bet with, and your shove will get called by AK which might instead just call a raise and then fold on a non-AK rag flop when you push then. You need to raise enough to be committed though if he shoves preflop - raise to around 7000, imo, call shove.

The disadvantage of not shoving is that you risk being outplayed if the flop is really ugly, but I think that's outweighed by the advantages.

Note that you're only in this position because of your smoothcall - that being the case, although it's probably a mistake based upon the frequency you're ahead here vs behind, I don't hate a fold here because that tournament offers so many easy opportunities to chip up at that point in the tournament - as you said, you're so deep here and people play so badly after the rebuy period that I don't hate just avoiding the difficult decision, folding, and getting back to accumulating easy chips.

That said, I still 4bet here

^^ OK well NOW that you mention the initial smooth call... I think a 3 bet would have been best and if that had happened you would have alot more info how to go forward if he still 4 bets you.... since you screwed that up I think you still have to play it safe... DOnt go broke to a better hand cuz you wanted to get crafty against a UTG LAGGTARD.... make up for the bad play with a safe one and move on.. you still have 80BB's is this not a consideration at all. the diff between 80 and 160BB is what at this point of the 3r? dont play them enough to know...

he didn't "screw up" by flatting the raise...flatting QQ utg+1 when utg opens at 100/200 with no antes is very acceptable and often times correct, don't berate him for this

what do you think button's ISO range is here gagsy?