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5-10-20 live hand at turningstone

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  1. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 6:14am)

    It's a 5/10 blind and 20$ bring in game. The table is 9 handed. Just bought in for 2k 1 orbit before.

    UTG+1 is Al Krux, he makes it 60 to go(seems 50-60 is standard for the table but not sure if 60 is standard from him)

    Loooose player next to act calls. I'm next with JhJd and call as well. Cutoff calls, Button calls and the blinds fold. 5-way action.

    Flop is 8 6 4
    Krux checks, loose player fires 125, I call and the two others fold. So we see the turn 3 way.

    8 6 4 8

    Krux fires out 400, loose guy folds, what do you put Al Krux on here? What's the play?
     
  2. GambleAB GambleAB is offline 1. I'm awesome

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 6:16am) in reply to Reynolds XO

    What do you mean a $20 bring in? Do you mean a $20 straddle?
     
  3. BigBadDevil BigBadDevil is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 6:17am) in reply to Reynolds XO

    Raise Preflop.
  4. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 6:22am) in reply to GambleAB

    The poker room calls it a bring in-i've never seen it before. Basically if u limp in it's for 20-but u can open for 25. It's definitely not a straddle, and i think this is a dumb rule. For example, if the table folds around to the SB, SB "limps" for 20 and for BB to play he has to call 10 more.
     
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  5. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 6:26am) in reply to BigBadDevil

    Why 3-bet this pre, and how much?
     
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  6. BigBadDevil BigBadDevil is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 6:49am) in reply to Reynolds XO

    3bet to gather info / take hand down preflop. you flat call, get the ideal flop and dont know where you're at.

    probably 200+ RR pre.
  7. tdk tdk is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 4:40pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    im straight with raising PF in live games with a vulnerable hand like JJ. u have position with ur JJ, and ur hand will be disguised if u do happen to hit ur J.

    krux has 77,99,10's, a set, or AK of clovers. i cant see him not checkraising the flop if he did have a set though. i say he has 77,99, 10's, or maybe ak of clovers. i dont see himself raising in ep with a8 either, but i can be wrong. based on that reasoning ill pop him up to 1000-allin to bet for value if he does have 77,99,10's or to price him out if he does have ak of clovers.

    id say thats a relatively safe flop for JJ. after the loose player folds im not putting krux on an 8 here. i think its safe to assume im taking down this pot.

    love this thread though, it made me think.
  8. wtf wtf is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 4:45pm) in reply to tdk

    This is a call imo I will see the flop and pick up my info then. I just dont see raisin pre to be a profitable play with jj in NL
  9. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 4:51pm) in reply to wtf

    I think reraising preflop is out of the question here and I think the smooth call is correct. When Krux leads out for $400 on the turn it puts me in a very tough spot since I didn't reraise on the flop. I ended up calling and the river hit the 2 completing the backdoor flush.

    Krux than led out for $1200, what is your play now?
     
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  10. bad grr bad grr is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 4:52pm) in reply to wtf

    gotta raise this preflop for many reasons

    You don't want more players behind you calling so you have a 5 way flop (like you did), you'll never know where you're at after the flop unless you hit hard. Do you really want to play JJ for set value with only one raise in the pot? You have position on the 2 players already in the pot, etc, etc, etc.
  11. Big Swing Big Swing is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 4:59pm) in reply to bad grr

    Reraise pre.. hope to take it down, by flatting here you have no idea where you are at! i fold the turn. and definately fold the river. Krux has u crushed.
  12. Big Swing Big Swing is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:00pm) in reply to Big Swing

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#eeeedd><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top> </TD><TD>Re(2): 5-10-20 live hand at turningstone
    by wtf on 8/12/2007 15:45 </TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><NOBR> </NOBR></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD colSpan=2><TABLE cellPadding=2 border=0 celspacing="0"><TBODY><TR><TD>This is a call imo I will see the flop and pick up my info then. I just dont see raisin pre to be a profitable play with jj in NL </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Stop posting!!
  13. tdk tdk is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:08pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    if u were in a tough position on the turn, ur in a worst one now!

    u didnt DEFINE ur hand at all, and i would have loved a raise on the flop. i can see smooth calling the flop, but u really do need to raise the turn. i respect ur game, and now i hope this hand reminds u why check/calling in poker sucks a fat one.

    i really didnt like that 2 of clovers on the river. if he had AK or AQ of clovers it hit and the flop call by him seems like a reasonable call considering the price that was laid. if u werent beat by a set on the flop, turned boat on the turn, ur beat now by the flush on the river.

    id hate to lay it down considering u called the turn, but id hafta fold here. fold and reload. well played mr krux.

    man i wouldve loved a raise ont he turn. i think that was the defining moment in this hand.
  14. Martine23 Martine23 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:13pm) in reply to Big Swing

    fold the river. stop saying r/r preflop he had options preflop and decided to call. i think its good to call preflop here around 25% of the time.
     
  15. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:15pm) in reply to Martine23

    For everyone saying fold the river, what do you put him on?
     
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  16. bbbbb33 bbbbb33 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:17pm) in reply to Martine23

    agree with martine.

    I think reraise about half time pre with JJ in this spot. I think you have to fold river. Did you think of folding turn or pushing turn?
    85 1
  17. bbbbb33 bbbbb33 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:17pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    FH or club flush obv
    85 1
  18. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:19pm) in reply to bbbbb33

    Never pushing turn because we are sitting rather deep
     
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  19. Frank1The1Tank Frank1The1Tank is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:29pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    You should have raised flop, or possibly pre to get it HU. Without raising you flop, you definetely have to raise turn. You said you don't want to shove, so raise his $400 bet to $1k and fold to his shove. You knew he would fire out much more with your turn call so it would have been cheaper to raise turn.
     
  20. tdk tdk is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:30pm) in reply to bbbbb33

    id say he went back door clubs with AK clovers.

    if he did play a flopped set this way, he disguised it pretty well by raising pf and flat calling the flop.

    full house or ak flush. im leaning towards ak flush.

    its what hands u can beat that he would play this way. i dont see any unless hes the type of player to bet this river with 77,99, or 10's.
  21. KSCKID KSCKID is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:30pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    hes not 3 barreling with 10 10 here
  22. tdk tdk is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:39pm) in reply to bbbbb33

    geez i cant stop thinking about this hand. on another note ur hand is so disguised that he may feel that he can get u off of it. have u played with krux before? have u shown down any hands since u sat? i know uve only been around for an orbit, but how do u think he perceives you?

    boat here
    backdoor ak flush

    77,99,10's
    ATC
  23. cashdaddy69 cashdaddy69 is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:41pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    dude called the river and won a hero hand orly?
  24. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:42pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    Raising turn is horrible here imo. If I was going to raise, a preflop or flop raise is way better than the turn to raise in this position. He doesn't call anything on the turn that I have beat if I decide to raise.

    I tanked the $1200 bet for a few minutes and just began to think about it. Would he check the flop with a set? 8? QQ+? I couldn't believe that he had any of those hands. I was going with my read that he fired $400 on this turn to attempt to represent the 8. However, I do believe he would have fired the flop with the 8 so I'm taking that straight out of his range. 99 and TT are a possibilty but I still think he leads flop. This line he took made no sense for a strong hand. The diamonds missed on the river and since I never once showed strength in this hand he could be betting $1200 thinking I am on the diamonds.

    I thought I was ahead of every single random hand he could turn over here other than AK puppyfeet. To me it just felt like a bluff. Not firing the flop with a good piece of it made me believe I needed to call here.

    I called and he turned over AQ for complete air. I took an odd line here with my JJ never once showing strength and he picked up on it. I let him bluff off and it worked this time and I scooped a pot just under $4000.
     
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  25. tdk tdk is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:50pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    i dont see why you think raising the turn is a bad play? i understand that a flop raise would have been better, but in this situation because it was another 8 i dont see it a problem at all. i didnt see him having an 8 at all throughout my analysis, and you could have very well represented the 8 urself.

    due to the vulnerability of ur jj, if he did have a hand like AQ or AK of clubs i dont see his bet of 400 all that bad of a play on the turn, i do however see by u just calling the turn as a rather odd play. well i sent u a PM.
  26. Reynolds XO Reynolds XO is offline

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    Aug 12th, 2007 (8/12/2007 5:55pm) in reply to Reynolds XO

    I think it would be a poor choice because I thought my hand was far ahead of whatever random 2 he had. Raising the turn gives him no chance to attempt to take it down on river. I went with my read and gave him another chance to bluff river giving my hand more value but also risking he could catch up if he did have clubs.
     
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