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50 left in $2.20 180 man what to do with 4x opening...

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  1. mav09 mav09 is offline

    OH
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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 7:33pm)

    pokerstars Game #58860469104: Tournament #372671846, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit -
    Level VIII (150/300) - 2011/03/08 9:38:10 ET
    Table '372671846 4' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
    Seat 1: GANJAMAN0088 (2972 in chips)
    Seat 2: Freek_V72 (11210 in chips)
    Seat 3: MSusi (5620 in chips)
    Seat 4: jean paul b2 (5480 in chips)
    Seat 5: babelitomax (5015 in chips)
    Seat 7: salcedo01 (90 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 8: dabears09 (5040 in chips)
    Seat 9: ASBigPapa (2210 in chips)
    GANJAMAN0088: posts the ante 25
    Freek_V72: posts the ante 25
    MSusi: posts the ante 25
    jean paul b2: posts the ante 25
    babelitomax: posts the ante 25
    salcedo01: posts the ante 25
    dabears09: posts the ante 25
    ASBigPapa: posts the ante 25
    dabears09: posts small blind 150
    ASBigPapa: posts big blind 300
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to dabears09 [9h 9s]
    GANJAMAN0088: folds
    Freek_V72: folds
    MSusi: folds
    jean paul b2: raises 900 to 1200
    babelitomax: folds
    salcedo01: folds
    dabears09: ???

    does a 4x open always scream strength? no reads on the villain. I'm pretty sure this is a push/fold scenario with a call being a huge leak. What is the proper play? If it is a fold, what range of hands should I be shoving with here?

    thx for the help
  2. Superleggera Superleggera is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 7:41pm) in reply to mav09

    This looks like a fold to me, especially since the raise is from EP. Depending on when blinds go up, you've still got chips to play with, so there's no reason to gamble here.

    My 3bet shove range here is prob JJ+ and AKo+, but that obv depends on the villain. And yes, I agree that this is a push/fold situation as well.
  3. ufgators948 ufgators948 is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 7:57pm) in reply to Superleggera

    JAM IMO but a fold isnt bad either because ur kinda guessing.
    Edited By: ufgators948 Mar 8th, 2011 at 07:58 PM
     
  4. mav09 mav09 is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 9:11pm) in reply to ufgators948

    is this a spot where I have to either have a really strong hand or a total bluff, like 56 suited?
    Thread Starter
  5. trouble trouble is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 9:20pm) in reply to mav09

    My advice may be ridiculed here, but you have to make chips in these turbos, and this is a good spot to go for it imo.

    People play bad (generally) in these, and I wouldn't say you can put too much stock in either his raise amount or his position.

    I would be happy to get it in here. Also, it wouldn't shock me if he folded.

    I'd say push>fold>>>>flat
  6. mooknam mooknam is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 9:24pm) in reply to trouble

    people who 4x in these things generally aren't folding to a shove. that being said, shove.
  7. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 9:55pm) in reply to mooknam

    Villain is more likely to fold to a shove than to show up with better than 99. Shove all day..
  8. Chavalo Chavalo is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 11:32pm) in reply to AFink93

    With no reads at all, I shove here. If villain was in earlier position, I'd probably just fold it.

    I do think he shows up with better sometimes, but it's still just a hijack 4x, so 99 goes in.
  9. Talewine09 Talewine09 is offline

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    Mar 8th, 2011 (3/8/2011 11:34pm) in reply to Chavalo

    raise to 5039, that should do it.
  10. mav09 mav09 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 12:26am) in reply to Talewine09

    So i saw supalegga's advice on 3b shove range. anyone else care to help there? for instance, am I shoving any pp? or is 99 about the low end of the range? what about a hand like 10J suited? easy fold? how often should I be shoving there with air to balance out my range?
    Thread Starter
  11. Superleggera Superleggera is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 12:59am) in reply to mav09

     
    Originally Posted by mav09 View Post

    So i saw supalegga's advice on 3b shove range. anyone else care to help there? for instance, am I shoving any pp? or is 99 about the low end of the range? what about a hand like 10J suited? easy fold? how often should I be shoving there with air to balance out my range?

    I think you're thinking too much into this type of situation. My point is, in turbo SNGs like this, you don't really have opportunities to 3bet shove light since you're relatively shortstacked after the first few levels. Therefore, you have to choose your spots accordingly. It's obv completely different in a standard MTT, but 3bet shoving w/ hands like JTs in these types of spots is very -EV imo. Call me a nit, but that's the way I see it.
  12. BSherman2 BSherman2 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 2:59am) in reply to Superleggera

    This is an easy shove. THis isn't a spot where you should be shoving light, but 99 is def doing real well against his calling range and you still have fold equity.
  13. hyphyjuice hyphyjuice is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 3:33am) in reply to BSherman2

    im folding this unless lots of history of out of line-ness
  14. frazze2 frazze2 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 3:42am) in reply to hyphyjuice

    180 is ak shove so i belive hes got ak so im all in with 99 i normaly fold but yeh coin flip
  15. BenJamin327 BenJamin327 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 6:34am) in reply to AFink93

    worst advice ever fink
  16. sobizzle21 sobizzle21 is offline Scammer

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 7:02am) in reply to BenJamin327

    shove 10000000% of time
    970 
  17. Col. frobin Col. frobin is offline Disabled account

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 7:39am) in reply to frazze2

     
    Originally Posted by frazze2 View Post

    180 is ak shove so i belive hes got ak so im all in with 99 i normaly fold but yeh coin flip

    Ive played a ton of these but $4.40 180 man. I would shove.
  18. JaySpo JaySpo is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 7:55am) in reply to Col. frobin

    My jamming range in this spot is prob 77+, AJo+. A fold probably isn't terrible either, but i guess it would depend on what you think of the villain. You said you don't have any reads on him so its hard to tell if he's the kind of player with sizing tells and just 4 sizes with 1010-QQ. I'd say 70% of the time when players make big raises preflop in these its more bad play than strategic thinking, so my chips go in here and lose to his A6o. Hopefully you have 3 other 2.20's open you can fall back on.
  19. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 10:20am) in reply to BenJamin327

     
    Originally Posted by BenJamin327 View Post

    worst advice ever fink


    Your right. What experience have I had playing 220 180s that I could provide insight on.
  20. mav09 mav09 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 2:51pm) in reply to JaySpo

     
    Originally Posted by JaySpo View Post

    My jamming range in this spot is prob 77+, AJo+. A fold probably isn't terrible either, but i guess it would depend on what you think of the villain. You said you don't have any reads on him so its hard to tell if he's the kind of player with sizing tells and just 4 sizes with 1010-QQ. I'd say 70% of the time when players make big raises preflop in these its more bad play than strategic thinking, so my chips go in here and lose to his A6o. Hopefully you have 3 other 2.20's open you can fall back on.

    thx for the advice all. this, especially is very helpful. i really debated what to do at the time, but did end up jamming and wanted to make sure that it wasn't the wrong play. I thought it was just as likely he was doing this with hands like KQ and almost any ace, but just wanted to see what you guys thought.
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  21. ufgators948 ufgators948 is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2011 (3/9/2011 2:59pm) in reply to BenJamin327

     
    Originally Posted by BenJamin327 View Post

    worst advice ever fink

    says the 180 reg
     
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