If he knows you can be opening light and 2 flatters behind I dont see why he has to have anything Huge here at all. He probably figures u could easily fold and he can outplay the flatt calls post flop if they call him.

Yea I mean i know it's not too deep thought but from the info provided that's my first thoughts. I'm also bad at the poker. :).

 

Originally Posted by elgordo420

i 4bet call

bc its him or vs anyone? i dont love getting QQ in for 42bbs here, but it is certainly an option.

what is ur sizing?

He's 86bbs deep. 4bet/calling here is pretty much spewy. I don't think he's ever getting it in 86bbs deep with JJ or worse and i do believe AKs is probably the bottom of his range. Don't like stacking off and if your 4bet/folding , your turning a very strong hand into a bluff. I like calling and assessing on the flop. Like RIR said above , unless you have some serious history with this player calling is the best option. I'm just curious what you mean when u say "i don't love getting QQ in for 42bbs here" he's alot deeper than 42bbs.

 

Originally Posted by NarcoCop

I'm just curious what you mean when u say "i don't love getting QQ in for 42bbs here" he's alot deeper than 42bbs.

that was bad math by me.

for whatever reason, i thought he didnt have to have a monster hand and i was ahead of his range. i know i am not really prob ahead of his 3b/to get it in range tho.

i didnt love flatting, bc then i feel i am playing at least a 3way pot, maybe 4way and i cant see QQ holding very often in that spot.

taking the fact i think i am ahead often enough and to keep it from being a multiway pot i made it
3225 and both flatters folded and phatcat called.

(also found HH text)

Hand#3016AE032A000812 - $65K GTD - Super Stack - PRO ELITE Bounty Edition T11404074 -- TICKETCASH -- $500 + $30 -- 9 Max -- Table 3 -- 0/75/150 NL Hold'em -- 2012/07/08 - 18:45:19
Dealer: Seat 8
Seat 1: Oscillate2Fi (15,598 in chips)
Seat 2: Colombindian (17,643 in chips)
Seat 3: allingraham2 (18,872 in chips)
Seat 4: kievfan29 (11,057 in chips)
Seat 5: Bomb_Squad (15,520 in chips)
Seat 7: Feskekyrkan (13,595 in chips)
Seat 8: CANTBREATHE (17,731 in chips)
Seat 9: 1phatcat1 (12,997 in chips)
Seat 10: skyboy_pt (12,167 in chips)
1phatcat1: posts small blind 75
skyboy_pt: posts big blind 150
Dealt to allingraham2 [Qd,Qc]
Oscillate2Fi: folds
Colombindian: folds
allingraham2: raises to 300
kievfan29: calls 300
Bomb_Squad: calls 300
Feskekyrkan: folds
CANTBREATHE: folds
1phatcat1: raises to 1,502
skyboy_pt: folds
allingraham2: raises to 3,225
kievfan29: folds
Bomb_Squad: folds
1phatcat1: calls 1,723
*** FLOP *** [9s,5h,6c]
1phatcat1: checks
allingraham2: ?

now do we just get it in, since im in this spot. i guess its obv we do.

Oh man I wish you didn't post results/his hand.

What a dumb/horrible way to play 99, multi way and oop.

Then again I used to play against him a fair amt on Merge, pre Revolution, when I was still playing mtts and never thought a great deal about his game so I guess its not that surprising.

I think you did the right thing by 4betting pre btw. It allows you to build the pot where you likely have the best hand. I also like your sizing because with the stacks as deep as they are it allows him to call with a lot of speculative hands that he could have been squezing with. And if you have any history, it could allow him to think that he has fe iwth a 5b jam.

Even when you give him the most narrow of ranges-AK, AA and KK, you still are in decent shape-16 combinations of AK and 6 each of AA and KK . And that's worst case scenario as we now know that we can range him much wider.

I mean calling is really kinda spewy and as you said likely to get you in a multi way pot where you will have no idea of where you stand even on a J hi flop.

 

Originally Posted by djdoodoo

4bet to see where you're at in the hand and fold if you get 5bet.

I think this is the worst possible line. Turn the 3rd best starting hand in pokerinto a bluff and fold. C'mon now.

i know what u mean by turning it into a bluff, but i sometimes thing that when u are pretty far ahead of his actual range of his 3b but very far behind his 5b range, is it really turning it into a bluff? (this may not be a spot where this idea applies since the player doesnt seem like a completely nit who can 3b all PPs but only 5b KK+)

i guess i shouldnt have posted results, but based on preflop line i took, the flop does seem pretty standard. altho it is true that he prob isnt check raising much that i beat. altho who knows since he did 3b 99 in a bad spot here, so maybe he does get 1010 in or something.

i guess checking behind and underrepping my hand and at least getting him to bluff or put me on AK can have some value, but also may just be me being results oriented. if i do check tho, i may get JJ/1010 to give me some chips, but like i said he may just get these in based on his line so far.

 

Originally Posted by AmSlim22

if his 5b range is AK and KK+ we may still have odds to call? i am not 100% sure, but if QQ is 40% against that it seems we do based on amt already in middle.

Yep snap call cause if he 5b jamm there'd be ~17k in the middle and you'd have to call like 8 more.

 

Originally Posted by norfair18

You need your initial raise to be more than the minimum 2x preflop. With the stacks so deep you can raise it up 4x and easily get a few callers, and you will still get 3-bet by weaker hands. With a min. raise and couple callers, phatcat is doing that with such a huge range, you really do need to 4 bet him. Calling 1500 out of position is a losing play.

i mean there are obv cases to be made for different raise sizing preflop, but if by min raising and picking up a few callers it results in him having a huge range, then it seems a min raise may be just what we want to be doing.

i'm not going to be 4x'ing pre for many reasons. do u 4x pre with everything u open?

yeah he MIGHT spew, which i dont expect. and flipping vs AK for these stacks is also not a good spot, especially because i remember op saying that the field is generally weak. so, there are a buncha flatters and he could even get it in vs 2 guys with his top set, instead he 3bets oop and set mines after the 5bet. it's an interesting and dumb line at the same time, since he really is just setmining, but at the same time can almost be sure that he gets hero's whole stack if he hits, so he need much less than 15:1 odds. imo, he just played that hand bad and i wouldnt expect a good player to do this (i cant remember ever playing vs him on stars). 4bet calling is still bad, u need to have a better argument than "he might spew with JJ (which is the only hand we bet anyway). since he just called the 4bet with 99 i cant say what he would do, but after that 4bet even QQ and AK are in trouble. sure most wouldnt let go QQ or AK if they were the villain, but it's a fact that ur in very bad shape with AK/QQ vs a QQ+/AK range!

 

Originally Posted by Blue Knight4

Seriously tho, what is the point of 3betting 99 there? So he can find out hes beat and then set mine with awful odds to do so?

Balancing if nothing else.

4b 2700 call shove fold to 5 bet induce??