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hey. had a difficult hand in the 75$ 20k gtd on fulltiltpoker some minutes ago...
Edited By: JackBlack87 Jun 23rd, 2010 at 11:14 AM
some inputs:
20 to go
5th in chips. average 44k
Full Tilt Poker Game #21819026560: $20,000 Guarantee (168206075), Table 12 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:49:20 ET - 2010/06/23
Seat 1: villain 2 (61,403)
Seat 3: HERO (58,369)
Seat 4: Mr_M155CL1CK (23,290)
Seat 6: villain 1 (9,181)
Seat 7: TreyGarcia (47,805)
Seat 8: bige2008780 (40,580)
Seat 9: gspott1975 (37,867)
villain 2 antes 150
HERO antes 150
Mr_M155CL1CK antes 150
villain 1 antes 150
TreyGarcia antes 150
bige2008780 antes 150
gspott1975 antes 150
villain 2 posts the small blind of 600
HERO posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Qd Ac]
Mr_M155CL1CK folds
villain 1 raises to 9,031, and is all in
TreyGarcia folds
bige2008780 folds
gspott1975 folds
villain 2 has 15 seconds left to act
villain 2 calls 8,431
some reads on villain 2 -
4BB or in moneybubble and fold to shove.
KK limp utg itm 24BBs
what do u do? -
what everyone else said, doubt villian 2 is just flatting with anything better than AQ, better raise it up or shove
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Why not? What do you think his flatting range is?
Originally Posted by josephf
what everyone else said, doubt villian 2 is just flatting with anything better than AQ, better raise it up or shove
Too many answers on this forum are just call, shove, fold, with no explanation of their reasoning or thinking. -
Iso. You're ahead of his flatting range....yes he could be flatting a monster hoping to induce but I still think it's better to try and isolate the ss shover here.
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i mean he could be flatting AA-KK trying to trap, but the vast majority of his range looks more like decent aces and pairs. I would range him at AA-KK, 1010-44, AJ-A8, KQ or something along those lines, and this is probably still way too tight i wouldn't be shocked by any means if he had something way worse than that range.
Originally Posted by flushdraw09
Why not? What do you think his flatting range is?
Too many answers on this forum are just call, shove, fold, with no explanation of their reasoning or thinking.
61,438,506 games 32.989 secs 1,862,393 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.434% 52.55% 04.89% 32283931 3003584.50 { AQo }
Hand 1: 42.566% 37.68% 04.89% 23149115 3003593.50 { KK+, TT-44, AQs-A8s, KQs, AQo-A8o, KQo } -
If he's a random I'd range him way wider than that. People seriously show up with the weirdest shit. Like A2+, 22+, KT+, QJ should all be in there. Ez shove
Originally Posted by P33J
i mean he could be flatting AA-KK trying to trap, but the vast majority of his range looks more like decent aces and pairs. I would range him at AA-KK, 1010-44, AJ-A8, KQ or something along those lines, and this is probably still way too tight i wouldn't be shocked by any means if he had something way worse than that range.
61,438,506 games 32.989 secs 1,862,393 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.434% 52.55% 04.89% 32283931 3003584.50 { AQo }
Hand 1: 42.566% 37.68% 04.89% 23149115 3003593.50 { KK+, TT-44, AQs-A8s, KQs, AQo-A8o, KQo } -
Originally Posted by negativeROI
If he's a random I'd range him way wider than that. People seriously show up with the weirdest shit. Like A2+, 22+, KT+, QJ should all be in there. Ez shove
Pretty much this... MP shoved <10 BB and it folds to SB with 1 to act behind and The biggest stack.***
The MP shover should have as wide as 40% of hands including 56s+, any suited king, 22+, a2+, 10j, etc, etc.
The large stack SB should have the hands NEGATIVEROI mentioned above to make his call profitable while leaving FE if you shove.
That means you need a tighter range to reshove profitably but that obviously includes AQ.
Yes he may flat hands like JJ-AA and AK for deception but he also does that with hands he plans on folding out to your reshove.
*You would have got that in anyway BVB* -
first, thanks for your replies. i also felt like a shove would be +EV. but the point is the stack protection. i dont like to shove AQ for 50BBs, especially when i had a note that the villain likes to underrepresent his monsters like he did before.
so the question is perhaps whether the shove is the best alternative or perhaps just calling, leaving us both with +40BBs, which definately is about the average stack and with 19people left a fine result.
by just calling i got the possibility on some boards to scare him off some hands postflop that might beating my Ahigh.. eg 22+
what u think of a call there founded on stack protection ? -
I hate it tbh. 1 of 2 things is gonna happen most of the time. You will flop and Ace and he will c/f when you bet winning you nothing else or you will miss and c/f to his cbet. I realize you have a note that says he likes to underep / maybe play tricky, but in a case like this with just the 2 of you to act in a 7 handed pot you have to trust that AQ is by far the best and that your not afraid to give him the pile. Your the best here enough to make this way +EV.
There is now 20K in this pot, your gonna add 35% to your stack with probably no showdown. IMO the stacks are perfect for you here.
SHOVE! -
First off, not sure why you responded with such a seemingly harsh tone. Secondly, I honestly did not think through the opponents range that much or anything of that sort. The reasoning behind my statement was simply experience in playing tournaments on Full Tilt Poker. I think it is so rare for somebody to flat there with AA, KK, QQ or some other huge hand. From what I have seen and noticed from playing poker so far is that people will do very silly things quite often. It would not surprise me at all if the guy flatted with a low pocket pair and would have to fold to the shove. Obviously this is player dependent and you would have to give a tighter player more credit, ect.
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He responded with such a harsh tone precisely because you didn't think through the player's range. It isn't productive or helpful to give advice without any reasoning behind it.
Originally Posted by josephf
First off, not sure why you responded with such a seemingly harsh tone. Secondly, I honestly did not think through the opponents range that much or anything of that sort. The reasoning behind my statement was simply experience in playing tournaments on Full Tilt Poker. I think it is so rare for somebody to flat there with AA, KK, QQ or some other huge hand. From what I have seen and noticed from playing poker so far is that people will do very silly things quite often. It would not surprise me at all if the guy flatted with a low pocket pair and would have to fold to the shove. Obviously this is player dependent and you would have to give a tighter player more credit, ect.
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I can never really wrap my mind around why online poker players are such d-bags. Really? You thought you should be the one to respond to my comment, that was clearly directed at him for one line? Honestly, if you look at all the responses before mine you will see I provided just as much, if not more information than anybody before me. Now I understand that I don't have any 100k badges under my name, but I do not understand why I would be the only one called out for doing just what everyone else did. Did you think it was productive or helpful when the people before me just said things like "easy call"? Just wondering why you would feel the need to isolate me in this situation and call me out, when I provided a pretty detailed response with exactly why I thought that way when he asked for one. Thanks for being irrationally rude, good luck with your pursuit of being a pro poker player sir.
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Nice work getting bent out of shape on the internet. I responded to your comment to explain flushdraw's post to you, because I understand where he's coming from. I didn't single you out, he did. Thanks for wishing me good luck though, I appreciate it.
Originally Posted by josephf
I can never really wrap my mind around why online poker players are such d-bags. Really? You thought you should be the one to respond to my comment, that was clearly directed at him for one line? Honestly, if you look at all the responses before mine you will see I provided just as much, if not more information than anybody before me. Now I understand that I don't have any 100k badges under my name, but I do not understand why I would be the only one called out for doing just what everyone else did. Did you think it was productive or helpful when the people before me just said things like "easy call"? Just wondering why you would feel the need to isolate me in this situation and call me out, when I provided a pretty detailed response with exactly why I thought that way when he asked for one. Thanks for being irrationally rude, good luck with your pursuit of being a pro poker player sir.
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I think getting bent out of shape over what people say to you over the internet is fine and reasonable, to be honest. We all spend such an enormous amount of time online playing poker or typing in these forums that it does not make sense to not take what people are saying seriously. I would have reacted exactly the same in person and have never understood why losers like you always throw back the "lol internet rage" comments. If you fail to understand that I made legitimate, albeit unnecessary, point in my first response to you then you sir are retarded.
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You said your notes say he has done this before with his monsters? I would say stick with your notes. your 5th out of 20 right. do you really want to put your tourney life on the line with AQ? just my opinion.
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joseph your advice was both irresponsible and incorrect given the opponents implied smooth call range based on factors unknown(fu)
just fuckin with ya bro, lighten up, nobodys folding a,q here with 20 ppl left. People are on the steal with hands as light as k,T to steal the blinds and antes at this point, FTW,SHOVE!!!! -
Infaulable, pretty confused here... what? i did not follow along with that at all?









