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88 in SB, Button raises

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  1. worldgoround worldgoround is offline

    Germany

    Posts: 8
    Joined: May 09

    May 30th, 2009 (5/30/2009 2:10pm)

    middle in a one table sitngo, what do i do preflop?the button raises to 3,5 BB.so what do i do? since its the button who raises, i reraised, tring to force him to lay down things like K J; AT... is this stupid?what do you say.

    oh i am "ME" thanks for your help

    edit: maybe i should have raised to 900, so i can fold if he raises allin.

    $5 NL Hold'em T5352004 -- Table 1 -- $0/$50/$100 NL Hold'em -- 2009.05.30 - 19:32:40
    Seat 1: serg*** ($1.450 in chips)
    Seat 2: Liti*** ($2.380 in chips) DEALER
    Seat 3: oh w*** ($2.770 in chips)
    Seat 4: ME ($2.585 in chips)
    Seat 5: 4pok*** ($1.316 in chips)
    Seat 7: MrXm*** ($1.820 in chips)
    Seat 8: nvid*** ($1.421 in chips)
    Seat 10: kick*** ($1.258 in chips)
    zzzero: posts small blind 50
    4pok***: posts big blind 100
    Dealt to ME [8c,8d]
    MrXm***: folds
    nvid***: folds
    kick***: folds
    serg***: folds
    Liti***: folds
    oh w***: raises to 350
    ME: raises to 1.200
    4pok***: folds
    oh w***: is all in 2420.0000
    ME: is all in 1385.0000
    oh w***: returns uncalled bet 185
    oh w***: shows [Td Ts]
    ME: shows [8c 8d]
    *** FLOP *** [8h,As,Tc]
    *** TURN *** [Ah]
    *** RIVER *** [Qh]
    ***SHOW DOWN***
    oh w***: wins 5.270 with Full House, Tens full of Aces
    ME finished 8 out of 10 players.
  2. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
    United States

    Posts: 2,005
    Joined: Feb 08

    May 30th, 2009 (5/30/2009 2:56pm) in reply to worldgoround

    In a MTT, I'd move in, and would do likewise here- a typical player's range is wide enough, though I'd be interested to read how players who play more SNGs than I feel about this.
  3. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

    Posts: 727
    Joined: Jan 08

    May 30th, 2009 (5/30/2009 9:17pm) in reply to hushpuckena

    I just jam over his raise and maximize fold equity. I don't see how 3-bet/folding would ever be good here.
  4. DutchCourage DutchCourage is offline

    Amsterdam
    Netherlands

    Posts: 512
    Joined: Nov 07

    May 31st, 2009 (5/31/2009 3:39am) in reply to worldgoround

    Difficult one. I think jamming is an option, your raise as played pretty much commits you to the pot anyway. However, at this stage of the sng I would probably have called, and played the hand aggressively going forward. Either case you'd have lost the hand, since you both hit your set on the flop...imo you would have lost this hand no matter how you played it, except for folding which would have been even worse...
  5. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

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    May 31st, 2009 (5/31/2009 10:55am) in reply to DutchCourage

    I really don't like flatting. You aren't getting odds to set mine and you don't want to be playing a marginal hand oop w/ ~20bb.
  6. DutchCourage DutchCourage is offline

    Amsterdam
    Netherlands

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    May 31st, 2009 (5/31/2009 7:17pm) in reply to odstore

     
    Originally Posted by odstore View Post

    I really don't like flatting. You aren't getting odds to set mine and you don't want to be playing a marginal hand oop w/ ~20bb.

    You figure you're not even getting implied odds? Let's say you were up against any A: on this flop you double up EASY - at least that's my experience. If you don't hit: let it go and play on, plenty of chips left to make something happen.
  7. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

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    May 31st, 2009 (5/31/2009 9:51pm) in reply to DutchCourage

     
    Originally Posted by DutchCourage View Post

    You figure you're not even getting implied odds? Let's say you were up against any A: on this flop you double up EASY - at least that's my experience. If you don't hit: let it go and play on, plenty of chips left to make something happen.

    You aren't getting the right odds to set mine. You are oop and you have 20bb. This is a shove or fold spot imo.
  8. Lesclaypaul Lesclaypaul is offline

    Indianapolis, IN
    United States

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    Jun 1st, 2009 (6/1/2009 1:58am) in reply to DutchCourage

    I figure he was talking about implied odds when he said he didnt have enough odds to set mine. You have about 1-8 to hit a set right? But if the Villian has a pair like 1010-KK and an A flops, he will probably not get the villians entire stack (or anymore chips postflop for that matter.) IMO he needs more like 10 or 12-1 odds to play a medium pair out of position, based on the fact that most times you wont hit the set and even if you do you are not guaranteed a lot of action based on the flop (if a scare card like an A comes). No reason to bleed chips away fishing for sets when its really a -EV play
  9. DutchCourage DutchCourage is offline

    Amsterdam
    Netherlands

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    Jun 1st, 2009 (6/1/2009 6:11am) in reply to Lesclaypaul

     
    Originally Posted by Lesclaypaul View Post

    I figure he was talking about implied odds when he said he didnt have enough odds to set mine. You have about 1-8 to hit a set right? But if the Villian has a pair like 1010-KK and an A flops, he will probably not get the villians entire stack (or anymore chips postflop for that matter.) IMO he needs more like 10 or 12-1 odds to play a medium pair out of position, based on the fact that most times you wont hit the set and even if you do you are not guaranteed a lot of action based on the flop (if a scare card like an A comes). No reason to bleed chips away fishing for sets when its really a -EV play

    Rethinking the whole thing, I think you are right. I think the OOP part is the main thing here though. Just for arguments sake, what if the same situation happens, only the raiser is in the cut-off and you are on the button? Would the implied odds improve enough to just flat call this in your opinions?
  10. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

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    Jun 1st, 2009 (6/1/2009 8:07pm) in reply to DutchCourage

     
    Originally Posted by DutchCourage View Post


    Rethinking the whole thing, I think you are right. I think the OOP part is the main thing here though. Just for arguments sake, what if the same situation happens, only the raiser is in the cut-off and you are on the button? Would the implied odds improve enough to just flat call this in your opinions?

    I'd still jam.
  11. worldgoround worldgoround is offline

    Germany

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    Jun 2nd, 2009 (6/2/2009 1:53pm) in reply to worldgoround

    thanks for the answers. so i think i would still make the raise.maybe move all in directly
    Thread Starter
  12. DutchCourage DutchCourage is offline

    Amsterdam
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    Jun 2nd, 2009 (6/2/2009 1:57pm) in reply to worldgoround

    As it goes: if you are prepared to call an all-in, shoving is most likely more +EV....
  13. stayhighlowe stayhighlowe is offline

    Chicago, IL
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    Jun 2nd, 2009 (6/2/2009 2:42pm) in reply to DutchCourage

    yeah this is a funny spot. the thing that is interesting to me is the button's 3.5x raise

    in my exp this usually means a hand that he is willing to go with..like a middle pair or aq etc,wants to take it down pre but is will to race against what ever you have.

    so 3 betting would accomplish nothing with your stack sizes.....

    so its either fold,jam,stop and go.....

    since our read is that the villian is going to go with his hand if we jam,and we only have 8s i would choose another route.

    i would prob me mixing it up between flating and jaming most flops(prob check folding some ace high flops/2broadway card flops) and just folding and looking for a better spot.

    if its a turbo i dont really love the stop and go, so its would prob be fold, or ship both being very close to each other

    i know i gave no real answer, but this is my though process about the hand
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