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9-11 big blinds in tournament PP, shove or raise?

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  1. P0LarAcE P0LarAcE is offline

    Canada

    Posts: 153
    Joined: Apr 10

    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 7:51pm)

    Just wanted some insight as to what would be more of a correct play when in a tournament and getting down to 9-11 big blinds.
    Dealt pocket pair...say 77s-AAs
    would it just be better to shove in pre or make a min/2.5bb raise
  2. mykalhenry mykalhenry is offline

    Bridgeport, CT
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 8:07pm) in reply to P0LarAcE

    You can't raise and let huge stacks call you for fun with the 24o and flop a rouge set or two pair. You must shove your entire stack in. IMO the value won by raising is far outshadowed by the aformentioned things happening to you...
  3. USCswimmer USCswimmer is offline

    Mount Dora, FL
    United States

    Posts: 650
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    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 8:09pm) in reply to mykalhenry

    wow lack of info...
    spot?
    bubble near?
    stacks behind you?
    position?
    77-AA is a broad range, limping 77 vs limping AA is a HUGE difference....
    Reads on table?
    blinds vs avg stack?
     
  4. P0LarAcE P0LarAcE is offline

    Canada

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    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 8:32pm) in reply to USCswimmer

    scenario would be blinds 500/1k 2500 entrants, 460 left with 360 paid
    stack size 11k, average stack 20-22k, 9 handed no reads on table as constantly being switched tables

    1. big pairs 1010-AA min raise/2.5bb raise or shove
    2. smaller pairs 22-99 min raise/2.5bb raise or shove
    3. A10,AJ, AQ, AK min raise/2.5bb raise or shove
    4. A2-A9 suited or unsuited min raise/2.5bb raise or shove

    sorry for lack of info USCswimmer, no tournament in particular. Just finding myself in these scenarios and i think im making some bad decisions most of the time. Just wanted some insight as to what would be the correct/proper play in these kinds of situations
    Edited By: P0LarAcE Aug 26th, 2011 at 08:40 PM
    Thread Starter
  5. USCswimmer USCswimmer is offline

    Mount Dora, FL
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 9:10pm) in reply to P0LarAcE

    im a big fan of min raising late in tournaments, especially if the rest of the table has about the same size stack as you... limping I never do, unless its a small pp or something I get sick odds for calling with pre (along with other limpers).
    *
    if you have 10 BBs in UTG-cutoff I usually jam in 77-TT pre, min raise JJ-AA
    *
     
  6. clantaztic clantaztic is offline

    O Fallon, MO
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 10:04pm) in reply to USCswimmer

     
    Originally Posted by USCswimmer View Post

    im a big fan of min raising late in tournaments, especially if the rest of the table has about the same size stack as you... limping I never do, unless its a small pp or something I get sick odds for calling with pre (along with other limpers).
    *
    if you have 10 BBs in UTG-cutoff I usually jam in 77-TT pre, min raise JJ-AA
    *

    I agree with swimmer as long as you don't think the table has any kind of read on you. For example if you have jammed the last 3x you have entered the pot with mediocre hands, I'm going to continue jamming with the big PP's given you have about the same stack.

    It depends what you think the other people at the table are capable of. Obviously you want max value out of your big Pairs, however if I see someone jamming every hand then comes out with a min raise, I'm usually giving them more credit then the shove.
  7. The Maven The Maven is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2011 (8/26/2011 10:34pm) in reply to mykalhenry

     
    Originally Posted by mykalhenry View Post

    You can't raise and let huge stacks call you for fun with the 24o and flop a rouge set or two pair. You must shove your entire stack in. IMO the value won by raising is far outshadowed by the aformentioned things happening to you...

    I'd recommend just shoving as your go-to default, but you should have no problem if you were to make a small open raise>> "letting" them call with 24o or hit a set (which they didn't have odds on in the first place)...them calling is a good thing, not a bad thing imo, whether you win or lose the hand (assuming you have a semi-premium hand or better like 77 and up to start the hand).
     1
  8. P0LarAcE P0LarAcE is offline

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    Aug 28th, 2011 (8/28/2011 4:23am) in reply to The Maven

    pokerstars Game #66643401081: Tournament #430039272, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (1500/3000) - 2011/08/27 18:37:49 MT [2011/08/27 20:37:49 ET]
    Table '430039272 67' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: pan70 (17010 in chips)
    Seat 2: SanSouSii (23239 in chips)
    Seat 3: hitorrun (19070 in chips)
    Seat 4: Csofter (68136 in chips)
    Seat 5: Chester20o (33238 in chips)
    Seat 6: KING_CLUB8 (19275 in chips)
    Seat 7: arualleinad (49775 in chips)
    Seat 8: HungryDr8gon (861 in chips)
    Seat 9: Beccs (23054 in chips)
    pan70: posts the ante 300
    SanSouSii: posts the ante 300
    hitorrun: posts the ante 300
    Csofter: posts the ante 300
    Chester20o: posts the ante 300
    KING_CLUB8: posts the ante 300
    arualleinad: posts the ante 300
    HungryDr8gon: posts the ante 300
    Beccs: posts the ante 300
    pan70: posts small blind 1500
    SanSouSii: posts big blind 3000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to KING_CLUB8 [As Ah]
    hitorrun: folds
    Csofter: folds
    Chester20o: folds
    KING_CLUB8: raises 3000 to 6000
    arualleinad: folds
    HungryDr8gon: folds
    Beccs: folds
    pan70: folds
    SanSouSii: calls 3000
    *** FLOP *** [Qc 3c Jc]
    SanSouSii: checks
    KING_CLUB8: bets 12975 and is all-in
    SanSouSii: calls 12975
    *** TURN *** [Qc 3c Jc] [8c]
    *** RIVER *** [Qc 3c Jc 8c] [Qd]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    SanSouSii: shows [5c Ac] (a flush, Ace high)
    KING_CLUB8: shows [As Ah] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
    SanSouSii collected 42150 from pot
    KING_CLUB8 finished the tournament in 240th place and received $61.29.

    we cant win em all :) with 6.5 bigs i shouldve just jammed but i wanted action so bad, also the table was in JAM mode so i thought someone would be coming over the top. Better luck next time
    Edited By: P0LarAcE Aug 28th, 2011 at 04:26 AM
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  9. Poker Orifice Poker Orifice is offline

    Canada

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    Aug 29th, 2011 (8/29/2011 6:15am) in reply to djdoodoo

    Vs. decent players > shove your entire range (never bothering to min-raise w monsters, it's just way too transparent imo). Vs. fish, go for a typical raise (2.2x) w 11+bb's I suppose, if you figure they're bad enough to not see thru it.
  10. djdoodoo djdoodoo is offline

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    Aug 29th, 2011 (8/29/2011 6:28am) in reply to Poker Orifice

    The thing is he's getting it in anyway on the flop if he gets called. He's not expecting to get flat called anyway, anyone who plays him is just going to isolate it. So the value looks weaker and he gets his money in at the end of the day which is what he's looking to do. He's more likely to get the action he wants if he doesn't shove but raises and shoves any flop.
    Edited By: djdoodoo Aug 29th, 2011 at 06:28 AM
  11. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
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    Aug 29th, 2011 (8/29/2011 7:48pm) in reply to djdoodoo

    When I get that low in chips I'm shoving any hand that I plan on playing. Personally, I feel like a raise or a shove both accomplish the same thing. Most players that are willing to call your raise when you have a stack that small probably would call a shove too. The only thing I will say is that you get some folds from players that would call your normal open so you might miss out on some chips. Whenever I see a short stack limp or min raise I know more often then not they have a really good hand. Now you could use this to your advantage if you're at a table of thinking players and just min raise junk hoping that they think you have a big hand and they will fold some hands that they might have called your shove with. I would not advise this at an inexperienced table.
     
  12. USCswimmer USCswimmer is offline

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    Aug 29th, 2011 (8/29/2011 7:58pm) in reply to mdshack14

    ahhhh, so this thread was just in question so he could validate his play for a bad beat.
    I see what you did there...
     
  13. P0LarAcE P0LarAcE is offline

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    Aug 30th, 2011 (8/30/2011 6:33am) in reply to USCswimmer

    Dont be so quick to assume i was looking to validate my play for a bad beat

    " . THREAD STARTED AUG/26th, TOURNEY LOST WITH ACES AUG/27 "learn, chat, play with the pros"
    Edited By: P0LarAcE Aug 31st, 2011 at 09:32 PM
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