ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh innnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!

Because of the min reraise, if the min reraise is anything besides AA, the guy is retarded, but since he min raised, I think it's safe to say he's retarded. QQ is definitely ahead of his range. You can either jamski or reraise; if you're feeling extra weak you can flat and fold to an Ace, but that just seems bad.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

73,629,072 games 0.047 secs 1,566,576,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.336% 49.93% 01.40% 36764358 1033849.00 { QcQh }
Hand 1: 48.664% 47.26% 01.40% 34797016 1033849.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }

No reads provided by you, so let's assume he only does that with the above assingned range I've set. If he's doing it tighter than that, you're further ahead. That said, considering it being a $55 on FTP and you're not providing reads for analysis, and you're not posting it in hand advice, I doubt you're prepared to analyze this hand even as far as I've willingly taken it with you. Good day sir.

Your opponent is going to show AA here a lot, but not enough for you to not shove the QQ. I'm usually willing to commit with QQ if it comes to that against players who I feel are bad or players with bad sharkscopes. Bad players are just commiting with too many hands for QQ to not be reshoved here. You could see a flop as the odds are obviously gret, but personally I dont see the point.

If they have AA/KK, the only way you're not getting it in is if a A or K flops, which is unlikely given that 2 of the 6 aces and kings are accounted for. Otherwise you're just calling with the best hand allowing your opponents to outflop you. He showed strength with his raise, so against a bad player, you're getting called here with lower pairs and dominated aces a large enough portion of the time to make up for the slim chance your opponent has AA/KK.

There are arguments that could be made about waiting it out to decrease the variance as you don't want to gamble early in SNGs, but I really just don't like not shoving against opponents who are commiting sooo many hands you're dominating. If it's a high stake SNG, or I am playing against someone in a lower stake game I know to be a very solid player who won't be stacking off with less than JJ, then I'll take my chances on a flop.

andres, that was my mindset, ive just encountered these situations so many times the past couple days playing these, i guess i just need to suck it up and think long term.

scary, i def agree with u that i could flat since my odds are good. i considered it, but then i realized id be set mining with QQ, which i hate to do as well. plus, we know the drill, when the board comes dry low cards, what am i doing, etc.

yep def agree.

ftr, i shipped on him, he snapped with KK, and i spiked a Q on the turn. lol

JJ is one of the most difficult hands to play OOP IMO. He is giving you the odd's to call preflop, and that's what I'd probably do. I do fold JJ post-flop a lot, but I don't feel horrible if I go broke with it. You just can't be ahead every time, or you'll turn into a super-tight nit, and that costs money in the long run.

In the first levels is hard to have reads, but there's when tools like sharkscope or your own notes come handy. I am a sharkscope subscriber, and it pays for itself in every round of SnG's I play.

Thats such a sick spot but like most said before... in a sng and in that situation i am getting it in with QQ and even AK.

With the JJ hand... honestly that would be tough. You could set mine hoping to hit a J high flop but you have to have the ability to fold on a 729 rainbow if you think he has an over pair there. But in all honesty are you really folding on a 729 rainbow there? Its just such a sick spot with JJ that I probably shove pre because I am a donk

lol, words of wisdom, i have to agree as well

This certainly isn't a fold, but I wouldn't shove here. I would just raise to 680. After he min raises he still has 1170 chips left, if you're taking a line with this hand, you've obviously put lower pps then QQ and AQ into his range and if you shove here he may fold a weaker hand you have dominated and he is not folding any hands that have you beat obv. So why not bet 680-700 and open up his range slightly for value no matter how slight that value gained may be, there is really no extra value made in just shoving all-in.

 

Originally Posted by Juanda 87

This certainly isn't a fold, but I wouldn't shove here. I would just raise to 680. After he min raises he still has 1170 chips left, if you're taking a line with this hand, you've obviously put lower pps then QQ and AQ into his range and if you shove here he may fold a weaker hand you have dominated and he is not folding any hands that have you beat obv. So why not bet 680-700 and open up his range slightly for value no matter how slight that value gained may be, there is really no extra value made in just shoving all-in.

Interesting take on the situation; I like the comment about not thinking short-term; so applying to this situation: Say you raise to 680 - now you have invested 60 % of your stack in the hand, and are obv. pot comitted. What do you do, when he just flatcalls, and the flop shows A or K without any Q ??? Do you shove the flop regardless, to you check/fold or check/call to the turn/river ?

If youre not going to shove yourself, I like the "weaker" approach of flatcalling the raise preflop, and see what the flop brings ... If it shows A or K, tend to give up the hand, except when he bets 1/2 the pot or less, OR checks ...

However, if there is a chance that you get raised all-in, after putting in the extra 680 chips, I would very much favor shoving here, at least, that gives you fold equity, and forces your opponent to make the decision for his chips before the flop !

My 2 cents ...

beat

Juanda, your reasoning makes much sense here :-) However, I would feel bad about having to fold my hand, after investing 60 % of my stack, when he shoves after my raise to 680 or 700 ... Even at blinds that low, I would hate having to already need to double or triple my stack ( ... remaining at approx. 760 after folding the hand).

Of course, when you push, and he has AA, KK, AK he is not folding here, and you get unlucky, heck he might even be loose enough to call with Ace rag or pocket jacks, but probably not at this buyin-level ...

So, in essence, the question might be : How much equity in $$ or chips do you expect to gain in the hand anyway ??? Another factor to consider is the amount of chips at stake, in relation to your stack before the hand; the amount of chips you are able to gain in the hand (before the final results are in) is 60 (blinds) + 120 (your open raise) + 240 (his reraise) = 30 % of your current stack.

That, imo, gives enough incentive to validate shoving preflop, unless of course, read-dependent or otherwise, youre sure, he makes this play with AA, KK, AK (only) most of the time ... Still, I like your take on the situation !!!

Cheers, beat

I'm no perfectionest SNG expert, but some of these responsesa are, imo, way off base. Raising anything but all in is a mistake. You have an extroardinarily difficult decision to make if an AK spikes the flop. And raising almost half your stack on the flo is just bad.

As for just getting it in with AK preflop, this really depends. You do not WANT to take a coinflip preflop. In the case of the QQ hand, this opponent appears to be very bad, and is likely willing to stack off with such a wide range of hands that it is just massively +ev to shove here. SNGs are not much about post flop play as preflop. You simply can't have swngs in your stack early since when you go up against a better hand or fail a bluff you are forced to go to push/fold earlier than you would like and earlier than the rest of the table. So basically the reason you're gambling QQ this early is because it is absolutely dominating the range here. If you tighten his range to AQ+ and 1010+, then we'd be having a completely different discussion.

It is possible that AK is a solid push, but you would either have to be playing an average low stake game, or a mid stake game with absolutely terrible players. If they're only gambling with pairs and AQ+, getting it in with AK preflop is a horrible mistake. You simply are not gaining enough equity when you do double up to justify taking what is hopefully a flip this early. Moshman's SNG book has an excellent point on this exact discussion of equity, which is the only part of the book I actually liked. It is fine to gamble with AK preflop in the first couple of levels, but you need to be very weary of what your opponent is gambling with. In my opinion, their range has to be calling your shove VERY wide for me to shove AK (as in A10+, KQ type hands). I don't mind seeing and just folding when I miss otherwise.

I can think of a specific opponent in the $55+5 games I played a lot on stars. He would always shove AK, KK or AA in the first 2 levels like clockwork. I sometimes call QQ and sometimes fold it since his range is so tiny. But every single time I woke up with KK/AA and hehad AK, I was getting it in as a big favorite. Knowing your opponents push ranges is absolutely crucial for you to base your decisions, and that even means generalizing the stakes you're playing (particularly if they are lower) with levels and types of players. I would play a $5 game much differently than a $60 game.

Wawa's a huge nit for the record...

juanda i see what ur saying, 4 betting him to induce a shove from a weaker hand. but dont u think that any hand hes raising here, hes planning on calling a shove? also, wouldnt u think a 4 bet to like 600 from me looks stronger than a shove?