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99 Facing a Min Re-Raise OOP...

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  1. gavy gavy is offline

    Notre Dame, IN
    United States

    Posts: 6
    Joined: Aug 07

    Aug 18th, 2007 (8/18/2007 12:08pm)

    If you know very little about the opponent but assume that he's reasonable, what kind of a range do you put him on here and how do you proceed?

    FullTiltPoker Game #3285284510: $10 + $1 Tournament (24586213), Table 26 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:24:52 ET - 2007/08/17
    Seat 1: gavy (1,450)
    Seat 2: mikeman71 (2,540)
    Seat 3: BigSlick086 (5,335)
    Seat 4: theoldtoad (3,280)
    Seat 5: Milk Pail (2,095)
    Seat 6: xmakox (3,500)
    Seat 7: LV 13 (1,145)
    Seat 8: Jwilson16 (1,100)
    Seat 9: Wetdown Artist (1,515)
    xmakox posts the small blind of 25
    LV 13 posts the big blind of 50
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gavy [9s 9d]
    Jwilson16 folds
    Wetdown Artist folds
    gavy raises to 175
    mikeman71 has 15 seconds left to act
    mikeman71 raises to 350
    BigSlick086 folds
    theoldtoad folds
    Milk Pail folds
    xmakox folds
    LV 13 folds
    gavy ???
  2. shady1128 shady1128 is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 602
    Joined: Aug 07

    Aug 18th, 2007 (8/18/2007 1:06pm) in reply to gavy

    He could have a variety of hands, but because he min-raised and it's an online tournament I think you have to be somewhat scared of the larger hands. Pairs bigger then you 99's or AK. For some reason online players think min-raising with large pair preflop is the way to go, but in my opinion min-raising a raise tells more about the strength of your hand then if you made a standard re-raise to 3x the bet.

    Players who re-raise to 3x the bet can be re-stealing, but also hand quality hands. When you min-raise you aren't expecting to take the hand down preflop.

    I would call with the 99's because of the odds you're getting, but if you don't see a favorable flop don't hesitate to fold.
  3. Xerond Xerond is offline

    Redlands, CA
    United States

    Posts: 12
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 18th, 2007 (8/18/2007 3:26pm) in reply to gavy

    Like shady said, a min re-raise preflop usually signifies big pocket pairs. They don't want to show you huge strength so that you'll bet into them on the flop, and they're scared they'll lose you. Which is why i like to re-raise 3x with aa or kk because people with ak/aq will sometimes do the same preflop. Technically you don't really have the odds to call. You're 600/175, and you're looking for a set on the flop, which is only around 7.5/1, however, if you do hit, and he most likely has a premium PP, then its most likely that you'll double up. So by implied odds its your choice, depends on how you want to play it, I'd probably fold it. Probably the best critique on thise hand is that I wouldn't have raised it. Now imagine if you had limped, he min raises (still a good indicator of huge PP if he is ultra tight), some others might call, and now you've got better odds to call and hit that set. Minimize risk, increase profitability.
  4. gavy gavy is offline

    Notre Dame, IN
    United States

    Posts: 6
    Joined: Aug 07

    Aug 18th, 2007 (8/18/2007 4:15pm) in reply to gavy

    I decided to call.

    FullTiltPoker Game #3285284510: $10 + $1 Tournament (24586213), Table 26 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:24:52 ET - 2007/08/17
    Seat 1: gavy (1,450)
    Seat 2: mikeman71 (2,540)
    Seat 3: BigSlick086 (5,335)
    Seat 4: theoldtoad (3,280)
    Seat 5: Milk Pail (2,095)
    Seat 6: xmakox (3,500)
    Seat 7: LV 13 (1,145)
    Seat 8: Jwilson16 (1,100)
    Seat 9: Wetdown Artist (1,515)
    xmakox posts the small blind of 25
    LV 13 posts the big blind of 50
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gavy [9s 9d]
    Jwilson16 folds
    Wetdown Artist folds
    gavy raises to 175
    mikeman71 has 15 seconds left to act
    mikeman71 raises to 350
    BigSlick086 folds
    theoldtoad folds
    Milk Pail folds
    xmakox folds
    LV 13 folds
    gavy calls 175
    *** FLOP *** [Jh 3c 2s]
    gavy ???

    Now what? It's pretty safe to say that this flop hasn't improved his hand, so I'm right back where I was preflop not really knowing where I stand. What would you do?
    Thread Starter
  5. Xerond Xerond is offline

    Redlands, CA
    United States

    Posts: 12
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 18th, 2007 (8/18/2007 4:31pm) in reply to gavy

    I check. AA he prolly check, its a pretty safe flop for a premium PP. AK he bets to see where he is at, or check if hes nitty and wants his card to catch. Medium PP prolly bets. Kinda depends on the player, but just focusing on yourself, check. You want that nine, and the only equity you have on this stack is if you push. Which is only thing you're able to do. So ask yourself, is it worth it to push my entire stack in this tournament, while you are out of position, and the blinds are only at 25/50? So check, if he lets you see another card then great, if he bets or raises, you have to let it go.
  6. gavy gavy is offline

    Notre Dame, IN
    United States

    Posts: 6
    Joined: Aug 07

    Aug 19th, 2007 (8/19/2007 1:52pm) in reply to gavy

    Now what?

    FullTiltPoker Game #3285284510: $10 + $1 Tournament (24586213), Table 26 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:24:52 ET - 2007/08/17
    Seat 1: gavy (1,450)
    Seat 2: mikeman71 (2,540)
    Seat 3: BigSlick086 (5,335)
    Seat 4: theoldtoad (3,280)
    Seat 5: Milk Pail (2,095)
    Seat 6: xmakox (3,500)
    Seat 7: LV 13 (1,145)
    Seat 8: Jwilson16 (1,100)
    Seat 9: Wetdown Artist (1,515)
    xmakox posts the small blind of 25
    LV 13 posts the big blind of 50
    The button is in seat #5
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gavy [9s 9d]
    Jwilson16 folds
    Wetdown Artist folds
    gavy raises to 175
    mikeman71 has 15 seconds left to act
    mikeman71 raises to 350
    BigSlick086 folds
    theoldtoad folds
    Milk Pail folds
    xmakox folds
    LV 13 folds
    gavy calls 175
    *** FLOP *** [Jh 3c 2s]
    gavy checks
    mikeman71 has 15 seconds left to act
    mikeman71 bets 1,100
    gavy ???

    I checked with the intention of folding to any reasonable bet. But the overbet of my entire stack made me think twice about his possible range of hands. At this point, I think it would be really unlikely if he had any hand other than AK, AQ, 77, 88, TT, QQ, or KK. I'm ahead of most of those. Do I call off all my chips?
    Thread Starter
  7. chknpotpie chknpotpie is offline

    Posts: 1,045
    Joined: Jan 07

    Aug 19th, 2007 (8/19/2007 5:39pm) in reply to gavy

    With an overbet there you will usually see hijm turn over QQ KK. Specially if hes been playing tight ....althgough if hesx one of those players who likes to splash around alot, you might see any 2 turned over including the range you gave him...so depends hows been playing.
  8. sotti sotti is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

    Posts: 1,342
    Joined: Sep 06

    Aug 19th, 2007 (8/19/2007 6:21pm) in reply to gavy

    I hate calling, but yeah I don't think it would be a horrible idea, and I'd bet he has AK.
  9. j_farah j_farah is offline

    Mississauga
    Canada

    Posts: 2,388
    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 19th, 2007 (8/19/2007 8:05pm) in reply to gavy

    Preflop, I think you played it fine. Putting in another reraise is just asking for trouble. You may already have the best hand (I've seen reraises with worse hands than 99) and if not you're getting decent implied odds.

    I hate checking the flop here. Unless he's got JJ (and sometimes even then) he's going to fire out a bet. Check-calling is a bad idea because the turn is unlikely to help you and he's probably going to bet again, so if you're not going to lead out your options are either check-folding or check-shoving.

    Unless he's been loose or donkish, there's no reason to believe he has a J when he puts you all in. JJ would want action and AJ probably wouldn't reraise pre. I would put him on 77-TT, QQ-AA, AK, AQ. According to Pokerstove, 99 is 53% against that range, so I'd call.
  10. Xerond Xerond is offline

    Redlands, CA
    United States

    Posts: 12
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 20th, 2007 (8/20/2007 1:56am) in reply to gavy

    Personally, like my previous reply, fold. You have to not only pull in the numbers, reads... but also the environment. You are 25/50, in a 10 MTT, calling off all your chips to assumed strength. I myself will even bet stack amounts early on in a low buy tournament, why? Cause it still gets called. Yeah you can say its a 10 mtt and the general player field is shat, but it in a situational sense I fold.

    TO quote j_farah:

    "Unless he's been loose or donkish, there's no reason to believe he has a J when he puts you all in. JJ would want action and AJ probably wouldn't reraise pre. I would put him on 77-TT, QQ-AA, AK, AQ. According to Pokerstove, 99 is 53% against that range, so I'd call."

    Why would you call off your stack on a 53% edge 30 minutes into an MTT? Also, classify that range with his preflop actions, I dont see a preflop minraise with 77-TT, and AQ is really pushing it.

    So by that logic you're prolly against qq-aa, ak.

    You've lost a fourth of your stack already early on, for raising a medium PP in early positon and then called a minraise out of position, checking into someone raises your stack 30 minutes into the mtt. I fold, but you can call and hope to see ak/aq, and be 70/30. Or be 15/85, against a premium pp. (oh yeah, did I mention this is a 10 mtt? hes prolly got j-10 and has you beat. =P)
  11. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Aug 20th, 2007 (8/20/2007 9:58am) in reply to j_farah

    I'm with J here, though slightly different at the end.

    I think checking the flop here is horrible. Check raising the flop, everything (except maybe 1010) that is beating you is calling. Pretty much everything less than you is folding. So, your not in great shape (though, I've seen AK's call here).

    You showed some strength before the flop, so he has to respect you firing out here. I don't think he can indiscriminently come over the top. I lead out here.

    As played, even given his range (with I think j farah hit on the head), I think it's a fold. You're winning 53% here, but that can change at the slightest level. You don't know what he's holding here, but I don't neccessarily like your chances.

    Sure, you could be ahead here, but he took control, and without you taking it back, you are really in a bind here. Your playing blind, I think I'd rather fold and get a chance where at least I'm the agressive player.
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