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advice on this hand please?

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  1. smiley69_300 smiley69_300 is offline

    Hanover, IN
    United States

    Posts: 2,089
    Joined: Jan 08

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 8:32pm)

    This hand has been bugging the shit out me. I am not complaining about a bad beat. I am just wondering if I shoulda reraised or folded this hand preflop this late in a tourny.I ended finishing 250/30,000. I am very happy with my playin today. I learned a lot from this tourny. I am just puzzled on what I should do next time.

    pokerstars Game #23578829019: Tournament #129736512, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (5000/10000) - 2009/01/04 19:33:14 ET
    Table '129736512 1573' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: Chard77 (122159 in chips)
    Seat 2: DonBrunstein (200299 in chips)
    Seat 3: smiley69_300 (401364 in chips)
    Seat 4: samba-rj (355781 in chips)
    Seat 5: AllVince (94128 in chips)
    Seat 6: jackasspade (107770 in chips)
    Seat 7: frankmel_27 (112086 in chips)
    Seat 8: EDMARS (166100 in chips)
    Seat 9: MrChess35 (564399 in chips)
    Chard77: posts the ante 1000
    DonBrunstein: posts the ante 1000
    smiley69_300: posts the ante 1000
    samba-rj: posts the ante 1000
    AllVince: posts the ante 1000
    jackasspade: posts the ante 1000
    frankmel_27: posts the ante 1000
    EDMARS: posts the ante 1000
    MrChess35: posts the ante 1000
    MrChess35: posts small blind 5000
    Chard77: posts big blind 10000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    DonBrunstein: folds
    smiley69_300: calls 10000
    samba-rj: folds
    AllVince: folds
    jackasspade: folds
    frankmel_27: folds
    EDMARS: folds
    MrChess35: calls 5000
    Chard77: checks
    *** FLOP ***
    smiley69_300 said, "thanks man"
    MrChess35: checks
    Chard77: bets 111159 and is all-in
    smiley69_300: calls 111159
    MrChess35: folds
    *** TURN ***
    *** RIVER ***
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Chard77: shows (a flush, Ace high)
    smiley69_300: shows (three of a kind, Threes)
    Chard77 collected 261318 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 261318 | Rake 0
    Board
    Seat 1: Chard77 (big blind) showed and won (261318) with a flush, Ace high
    Seat 2: DonBrunstein folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: smiley69_300 showed and lost with three of a kind, Threes
    Seat 4: samba-rj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: AllVince folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: jackasspade folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: frankmel_27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: EDMARS (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: MrChess35 (small blind) folded on the Flop
  2. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 8:42pm) in reply to smiley69_300

    I assume you're asking if you should have folded or raised pre-flop, rather than limping...it's not clear from how you wrote the post (talking about re-raising or something).

    Deep in a tournament, in EP, you should fold. Pretty much nobody at the table is deep enough for you to get the right price in calling a raise and trying to set mine.

    Tough beat.
     
  3. Avs33 Avs33 is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

    Posts: 141
    Joined: Dec 08

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 8:44pm) in reply to smiley69_300

    I don't mind calling PF being UTG+1, I would like to just see a flop. If you raise PF and you miss the flop which you will more times than you hit, you have to play OOP. Not really what I would want to do. I would rather call PF, check the flop if I miss and go from their.

    As played I call the shove with bottom set, he def isn't going to shove with mid to top set so your in good shape. He hits the OESFD on the turn, and hits the flush on the river. It happens I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. Thats the thing with those 1 gappers they are highly disguised at times and he had ALOT of outs and hit.
  4. smiley69_300 smiley69_300 is offline

    Hanover, IN
    United States

    Posts: 2,089
    Joined: Jan 08

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 8:59pm) in reply to Avs33

    yeah I was meaning pre flop. Thanks for the advice guys. I will def keep that in mind. I aint really beatin myself up. Just wondering if I shoulda done something different.
    Thread Starter
  5. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 9:45pm) in reply to Avs33

    Avs, do you just fold if someone raises behind you then, or are you calling off 8-10% of your stack OOP?

    IMO, if you can't call a raise pre-flop, you shouldn't be limping, because it's rare you'll get to see a cheap flop deep in a tournament. Someone's raising about 95% of the time.
     
  6. lind0 lind0 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 672
    Joined: Jan 06

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 10:08pm) in reply to smiley69_300

    I don't really like the preflop call in this spot. It's fine to sometimes limp a small pair in early position if everyone at the table is deep-stacked. You can hit your hand and potentially win a huge pot when there are lots of chips in play.

    In this spot you've only got 40 bb's (which is actually not too bad, although I'd prefer 50+ to set mine). And the real problem is that your opponents have even less chips, including several still to act behind you who only have 10-15 bb's. They don't have enough chips for you to win when you hit your hand to compensate you for the times you miss.

    Also, when you're short it's harder to call a raise behind you after you limp. If you and your opponent have 100 bb's, you can call the raise knowing that you might win a huge pot if you hit, and it only costs you a small percentage of your stack to try. When your opponent behind you with 10-15 bb's raises, it's going to be all in, or it's going to be for an amount that basically commits them to the pot. So if someone behind you has a hand and raises (keep in mind these are short stacks looking for a spot to make a move, and won't exactly need a monster to take a stab), you'll have to commit 100K to call. As you can see, calling is just not a very good option. Folding is normally the best play.

    Raising here wouldn't be too bad if it was the money bubble and your table was passive, or if it was the final table bubble and people were holding on, or if you were deeper stacked and just varying your play, but you need some good reasons for horsing around with a small pocket pair in early position.

    If you must play this hand, one benefit to raising here is that atleast it clarifies your play when you get raised. If you limp, you have to fold sometimes when people move in, or you atleast have to think about it. If you raise to 30K and someone moves in for 100K, it's an easy call because of the pot odds.
  7. Avs33 Avs33 is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

    Posts: 141
    Joined: Dec 08

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 10:12pm) in reply to grapsfan

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    Avs, do you just fold if someone raises behind you then, or are you calling off 8-10% of your stack OOP?

    IMO, if you can't call a raise pre-flop, you shouldn't be limping, because it's rare you'll get to see a cheap flop deep in a tournament. Someone's raising about 95% of the time.

    It sounds like your saying OP should have just folded PF and not even played the hand, and I disagree with you their sorry.
  8. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

    Posts: 9,084
    Joined: Mar 08

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 10:52pm) in reply to Avs33

     
    Originally Posted by Avs33 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    Avs, do you just fold if someone raises behind you then, or are you calling off 8-10% of your stack OOP?

    IMO, if you can't call a raise pre-flop, you shouldn't be limping, because it's rare you'll get to see a cheap flop deep in a tournament. Someone's raising about 95% of the time.

    It sounds like your saying OP should have just folded PF and not even played the hand, and I disagree with you their sorry.

    folding small pocket pairs OOP in this stage of the tourney is of HUGE importance

    playing these hands is the type of subtle leak that seperate the MEN from the BOYS

    all the best,

    one of the BOYS
  9. Avs33 Avs33 is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

    Posts: 141
    Joined: Dec 08

    Jan 4th, 2009 (1/4/2009 11:00pm) in reply to jetsjets1028

    ^^^^^^^^

    LOL is all I got
  10. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
    United States

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    Jan 5th, 2009 (1/5/2009 1:42am) in reply to smiley69_300

    The long and short of it is this-dump the small pairs in this situation. Half your opponents on this table have low Ms and should be playing any holding for all their chips, and I'd much prefer to be raising than limp/calling. Your implied odds, which you need when playing the small pairs, drop to nil when someone has put all the money in there.
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