I love my PT3, and the default setup gives me everything I need for MTTs. I definitely think it's helpful, but not a crutch, and since it's a one time cost and we can't all be MMM, I don't see any downside to a true MTT grinder trying it out.

after tinkering with how i use my HUD, whats best for me is I have it running throughout my session but only bring it up when i need it.

For me with the HUD I only use the information to help make my decisions. I have made some terrible plays relying to much on what the HUD is saying. It is a very good tool but can be semi destructive IMO if you don't use it properly. I would say learn to balance the HUD with table dynamics and independent reads.

Using a HUD is the shit and if you are not using it you are losing value. I won't get into the great Hud vs Non-Hud debate, but just let it run, even if you aren't paying attention to it, and over a long period of time just having it there in front of you, it will start to make sense as time goes on. The more work you put into it, just like anything else, the more you will get out of it. I watch tons of training videos and I am constantly watching, even some of the best pros, lose value on plays because they are multitabling and can't adequately range their opponents because they don't have the proper history on the villian at their disposal. So often I see them making calls they should of never of made because they are making a mechanical play that the HUD would of told them it's a no call, or vice versa, not making a call they should be making. I have been using a HUD since they first arrived on the scene, and what I can do with one is simply amazing! Not a brag, but some words of encouragement on why to jump on the HUD bandwagon.

I have and use "both" HEM and PT. I like HEM a lot better for HUD just because I think designing the layout is a lot easier than PT. I also use HEM more so than PT because I use a majority of HEM's other products (i.e. Table Ninja and SitNGo Wiz), not to mention I think the guys over at HEM are awesome to work with in every capacity! Here is a quick snapshot of one of my HUD's:



I use quite a few of the stats that probably would take quite a while for newbs to grasp, but here they are as follows:

Abb. Name
Hands
Big Blinds
----New Panel---
VPIP
Preflop raise
Agg factor
---Line Feed---
3-bet
Fold to 3bet
Steal
Fold Vs Steal
---New Panel---
Flop CB
Fold to flop CB
Check raise
Limp fold

If you put in the above information under "Player Preferences" then "Display these stats" this will give you a HUD "around" the players name like I have above. You would have to spend time playing with it, tweaking it, and customizing it a bit more and you will get the above results. It takes time to understand how to customize it, but put the effort in, and you will get some pretty cool results. It's a trial and error thing but I strongly recommend full exploration in HEM and you will get awesome results from it!!!

Now most of the categories listed above would be chinese to a newb. You can add them all and just let it run, and over time, hopefully you will pick it up. For a total newb though, I would recommend at least the following until you really understand the numbers:

Abb. Name
Hands
Big Blinds
Vpip
Preflop raise
Agg Factor
3 bet
Steal

Should get you started. HEM has great online documentation, training videos to get you started, and either HEM or PT's forums are a great resource for asking questions, picking up ideas, and finding just about any help you will need.

Hope this helps...good luck!!! Welcome to P5's!

I think huds are better suited for cash games. Unless you've got hand histories for about 10k+ tournaments.

Edit: If huds have specific information on how villains play from a certain position that session then they are good along with providing information like tilt likeliness, otherwise the information is wholly unreliable and you'll do better just by monkey clicking and soul reading.

My two cents and I know how to use a hud.

Polar_bears with that HUD set up does that only work like that for UB or does it go around the name for site like FT and PS?

 

Originally Posted by Polar_Bears

Using a HUD is the shit and if you are not using it you are losing value.

I mean, ur post is great, and i will probably try ur layout as it looks pretty damn good.

But why would u go out of your way to tell people how good it is?

 

Originally Posted by Polar_Bears

LOL...not true ;)
It is "equally" important for both....

1. Hud stats in tournaments become worthless in turbos
2. All Hud stats are unreliable over a 100 hand sample size generally 1 hour of tournament play.
3. Huds restart collecting data when you table change.
4. Relying on old hands from tournaments is bad as it collects from all blind levels. If you can filter out blind levels for your specific hud then more power to you.
5. As the number of players on the table decreases your stats become highly skewed. For example going from 9 to 6 handed is a major crap shoot.
6. Huds don't show what the position stat is immediately. You have to hover over the stats, and that's not good for mass multitabling. Every decision is like 3-7 seconds long 20+ tabling etc...
7. You'll never collect enough hands (about 500) to run multistreet bluffs without doing all the thinking on your own, which negates some of the utility in using a hud. I.E. reliable double barrel percentages/tendencies to fold river
8. Finally huds don't and can't account for call/raise frequencies by board texture.
9. VPIP means squat unless you hover over the stats. You could have a 60/40 villain with a 70% Fold to 3-bet and an 8 vpip UTG that you easily mistake for a light 3-bet candidate.

Eh, I not against using a hud especially if you're still making money with it playing tournaments. I think we should be realistic about their utility though.

 

Originally Posted by Dr.Guillotine

1. Hud stats in tournaments become worthless in turbos
2. All Hud stats are unreliable over a 100 hand sample size generally 1 hour of tournament play.
3. Huds restart collecting data when you table change.
4. Relying on old hands from tournaments is bad as it collects from all blind levels. If you can filter out blind levels for your specific hud then more power to you.
5. As the number of players on the table decreases your stats become highly skewed. For example going from 9 to 6 handed is a major crap shoot.
6. Huds don't show what the position stat is immediately. You have to hover over the stats, and that's not good for mass multitabling. Every decision is like 3-7 seconds long 20+ tabling etc...
7. You'll never collect enough hands (about 500) to run multistreet bluffs without doing all the thinking on your own, which negates some of the utility in using a hud. I.E. reliable double barrel percentages/tendencies to fold river
8. Finally huds don't and can't account for call/raise frequencies by board texture.
9. VPIP means squat unless you hover over the stats. You could have a 60/40 villain with a 70% Fold to 3-bet and an 8 vpip UTG that you easily mistake for a light 3-bet candidate.

Eh, I not against using a hud especially if you're still making money with it playing tournaments. I think we should be realistic about their utility though.

A LOT of what you have here is completely wrong. Seems like you are commenting ion the HEM hud as it isnt how the PT HUD works.

2. Give me a 40 hand sample post-antes and it's enough to get a sense already.

3. WTF? not with PT3. if players move with you nothing is different. Sure, new players at the table are new so fewer hands collected... but this point make no sense unless it's a HEM limitation.

4. true, varied blind levels etc do change the stats a bit. However, in PT you can hover for current tourney only if you want. I find that people's current tourney #'s are usually pretty close to their overall total.

5. Duh. But you can filter for 6max vs 9-max (at least in PT - if you want to do that though it takes some setup work in teh hud)

6. totally wrong. I have on my screen overall stats as well as some LP stuff, so I don't need to hover / look further.

7/8 true, but so what? don't use em for that then.

9. you don't know how to use a hud. try having VPIP/ PFR/ LP steal % / fold LP steal % to 3bet on your primary display- with no hovering. Trivial to do in PT (can't speak to HEM)

Lastly, how much info you put on there ought to reflect how many tables yo uplay. Obviously the more tables the less time to make decisions... but if you are playing 10 or less you can use a TON of on screen info and drill down when needed to make a decision.

 

Originally Posted by Polar_Bears

Absolutely not true...

Wrong, and it's not even close. HUD's are essential for cash games, but not for tourneys.

I shipped my second biggest cash without a HUD so I have mixed feelings about it. I think I over use the hud sometimes and forget to play my cards so I know huds are great but you can win without them too.

This thread is so full of ignorant fail

 

Originally Posted by Dr.Guillotine

9. VPIP means squat unless you hover over the stats. You could have a 60/40 villain with a 70% Fold to 3-bet and an 8 vpip UTG that you easily mistake for a light 3-bet candidate.

wtf?!?! lol@ a 60/40 being an 8 utg....... this is unpossible

I have participated in more threads about this subject than most people have combined posts everywhere. I am not going to have the great debate about this anymore. The only thing I can do is share my experience and you can take from it what you need...

I started playing poker in 2003 during the great Moneymaker explosion. As soon as I got online playing, I heard the work "HUD" right out of the chute. I immediately (before I could even play poker) went out and got a HUD when PT was the only thing available in it's very early days. I took a backwards approach to poker in that I learned how to play poker "through" a HUD. I didn't even know what I was doing for the first couple of years with it, I just setup the database and let it go, with the HUD running all the time. I barely paid attention to it because it was so overwhelming to me at first, but mainly did it to collect hand history for myself. As time went on, just having the HUD running all the time, slowly things just started making sense as time went on.

As time went on, I became "extremely" dependent on a HUD. What I could do with one at the time, was pretty incredible opposed to the rest of the field, but I couldn't read a table without one to save my life. I think it was Fox who participated in a conversation years back about this who said if you are dependent on a HUD you are doing yourself a great disservice, and I strongly recommend you turn off the HUD for a while. I realized even though I was in an elite class with a HUD, I was clueless about the game without one, and I turned off my HUD for a year while I learned how to read a table without one. Once I had this accomplished, I turned the HUD back on, and never looked back!

I feel extremely fortunate that I took the reverse approach to poker in learning how to play through a HUD "first." It has taken me so much deeper into the game than if I had done it on my own without one. It has helped me to really understand statistical categories and ranges, further understand leaks in my own game, and better helping me to range my opponents and find weakness in others game to exploit that I possibly couldn't do without a HUD. There is absolutely no doubt just by simply using the HUD, it has taken me deeper into the game more than I could of ever done on my own!

Most people that make comments against it using the HUD, and even some that are using the HUD, simply can't use it to the degree that I can! They can't possibly see what I can see with it, regardless of how good they think they are with it. I have participated in conversations exactly like this over the years with some very brilliant minds before most people even knew what poker was, to only watch these same people over the years gravitate towards using a HUD themselves. Just even a year or two back, it was next to impossible to find a training video of a pro who was even using a HUD, now it's hard to find a pro who "isn't" using one!

Most people would even give you their feedback on picking which tracking software to use over the other, and don't even really know the differences and why they are making that comment other than they are commenting on the one they are conditioned to using. HEM seems to be the popular one today and everyone's first pick, so when the conversation comes up in a thread that is the advice they are going to give you without really knowing boo about anything. If someone is giving you advice on which product to use, simply ask them, "why specifically this one over the other?" I can almost promise you they have absolutely no solid explanation as to why they are making these biased statements.

Like I mentioned earlier, I been using HUD's since they first came into existence. I was a beta tester for PT back in the day when PT2 came out. When HEM came onto the circuit, I switched over to them because I was very frustrated with all the technical problems for PT. I used HEM as my primary app now, but actually use both applications for different reasons.

Most people don't know that if you are a cash game specialists, then HEM is a much better product for your needs. If you are a SnG or MTT player, then PT is actually the better application. However, why do I pick HEM over PT if I am an MTT guy?? For a couple of reasons....one, HEM is a "much" more stable application. It absolutely never crashes on me EVER, where PT is not stable at all, and crashes quite frequently. Crashing applications is extremely tilting and have ZERO patience for. This is the absolute main reason why I choose HEM as my primary application! Second, I use majority of all the HEM applications in the suite so it's easier for me to stay within the family. Third, HEM folks are the best in the world to deal with when it comes to any applications in the poker industry! They have a rock star of people working over there that I can't speak highly enough about, and go above and beyond the call of duty to help you with all your needs. I can't speak for everyone over there, but Fozzy for HEM, and Fool for Table Ninja, are the cream of the crop of people in the industry to deal with! Last, IMO, the HUD is much easier to work with and create custom layouts in HEM than PT. For these reasons alone, I will always be loyal to HEM and suggest that is the product you use as well!

I have been flamed over the years for my beliefs, use, and position on tracking software and/or use of it, only to watch the industry have a complete turn around about the whole thing. There was a point in time where it was next to impossible to find someone who even thinks the way I do on the subject, and now it's impossible to not find someone using it or making similar statements to mine. I can use both applications pretty thoroughly, and don't throw my advice out there lightly. I have made myself as close to an expert as I can get to date on both applications, and probably in the top 1% of users in the world on the HUD subject. I am not bragging in the slightest, just stating some facts so you can better inform yourself about my own experience on the subject and take what you want from it.

For the people that make comments about HUD's not being practical in MTT's versus cash games, this simply isn't true at all. Yes there is more you can take out of the numbers for cash games, but they are equally important to their perspective games. There is so much more information you can take out of a HUD than just vpip/pfr. Steal, 3 bet%, 4 bet%, C-bet, Squeeze, etc...can all be utilized in making decisions against villains. The funny thing is the most applicable place I use these stats against are....well against "you!" The fish are easy just based off their vpip/pfr and no need to even further look at other categories for ranging them and playing at them. The crucial places these numbers are used are against the NIT's, Rocks, and Grinders deep! They all may have 12/8 numbers, but what they do around that is where the HUD comes in and makes them exploitable. You have no idea how obvious some of you are and how exploitable certain areas of your game are! You may not know it, but I do ;) If you are also use to getting deep quite often on the same site, you are going to start running into a lot of the same players frequently and having this data in late game against these players is a God send!

So the bottom line is...if you are asking me for the skinny on a product or HUD, then get HEM, learn and study not only the HUD, but HEM overall for plugging leaks and further learning the game from deeper perspective than anything you can imagine. It may be completely overwhelming in the beginning for a while, but just keep plugging along and I promise you the rabbit whole goes deeper than you ever imagined!

Of course these are just my opinions only, so take what you want out of it :)

Good luck with it all....

 

Originally Posted by bonflizubi

2) for Polar there is a counter to his HEM argument. PT3 is actually VERY stable at this time. It doesn't crash. (I'm an alpha tester for them) In no way do I knock HEM, but since yo usay PT has more capability for tournaments with the main knock being stability, I think people may be misinformed. Current version is pretty rock solid.

Hmmm...being that I upgraded like 2 days ago and it crashed on my 15 minutes in...speculative