with a 2k roll, i would start at 4 tabling .25/.50c NL with a mixture of full ring and 6 max. and for the added bonus, play on a site that has a bad beat jackpot. The little added spice to make up for the monotony of playing cash at times.

suggestions on sites with soft cash games, reasonable software for 4-6 tabling and rakeback or good loyalty bonus schemes?

 

Originally Posted by Limo Wreck

I think the problems you list are also rampant in cash games even at small stakes. There are lots of regs in cash games reducing your edge, fish are getting better odds to suck out on you, etc. Not to mention they are vastly different from SnG's and will require a huge learning curve to become profitable.
However, if you can learn quickly and are stimulated by the challenge (sometimes expensive) that learning cash games will provide, then you might want to start learning and playing.
I wouldn't recommend jumping headlong into multi-tabling 0.50/1 and expecting to profit. I would start out by sticking with SnG's mostly and dedicating a few hours per week to learning cash games. Start with 2 tables at stakes where you can withstand losing a few buy-ins. 100k hands at a given level is considered a good sample size with which to equalize variance.
Watch any videos you can, especially pertaining to the stakes you are playing. Read cash game forums religiously (2+2, bluefirepoker.com, cardrunners, etc.) and post HH's and talk to regs. You will learn a lot.
It's ok to be a nit, and especially a bankroll nit in cash games because the short term swings can be very unnerving. With a 2k roll and a small sample size, I would start with 0.10/0.25 and see if you can beat it. Play 50k hands (small/mediumish sample size) and see how it goes. If you are crushing and confident playing for 100-300BB stack sizes at this level then move up. If not then, keep studying and improving until you grasp the important concepts of playing each hand for cash value.
When deciding to move up stakes, set a minimum bankroll for the level you wish to play. Generally 25-40 buy-ins is considered protected/nitty which is fine in low stakes cash games. When you decide to move up from say 0.25/0.50 to 0.50/1 then you should set a buffer zone for taking a shot. I think starting with 25 buy-ins ($2500) and setting a stop loss at 20 buy-ins ($2000) is a good buffer for taking a shot at this level. If your shot is unsuccessful after losing 5 buy-ins ($500) then drop back to 0.25/0.50 immediately (w/ 40 buy-ins @ $2000) and grind back up.
Holdemmanager is the best software you can buy to analyze your opponents as well as your own game. It will pay for itself the first week when you learn to use it.
And obviously start at a site where you get rakeback and good game selection. FTP is pretty good IMO. The key ingredient here is good game selection. The two most important aspects to being a winning poker player are bankroll management and game selection. If you are at a table full of nitty regs at the tip top of your bankroll, then there's really no point in playing that game. You will make more money playing fish at the next level down.
You will have to be on your toes and adjust quickly to changing dynamics to become successful at cash games, but if you have the drive and the talent then you can make a lot of money.
BTW online MTT's are a very profitable alternative if you can stand the longer term variance involved.

100% agree with everything said here.

Limo Wreck wins this thread, but I'll try to answer your questions in the order you wrote them.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

1. Which site to start out at (noting awful software tilts me)??

I've only played cash on FTP, so I can't really provide you with a good recommendation on other sites. Rakeback is a must though.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

2. 6 max or full ring??

6 max obv. IMO, full ring is populated by a bunch of nits just waiting for the nuts. If you like boredom and cooler situations, then go with full ring, but if you're looking for a more interesting and challenging game then I'd learn 6 max play.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

3. what stakes to start out at, lets say with a $2k roll

To be honest, if you're just starting out in cash and don't really have much experience, then the size of your roll really doesn't matter for the stakes that you should play. I'd recommend starting out at 25nl and read everything you can on 6max cash strategy. You won't have to play a super large sample of hands at 25nl to know whether you're getting it or not, so move up once you become more comfortable playing hands 100bbs deep. But I think it's really important to develop that comfortability first before trying to play higher levels and potentially losing a significant portion of your roll. Plus with 2k behind you won't really sweat dropping a buy-in here or there due to learning experience mistakes.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

4. number of tables to play (i realise its not as easy to mass table as sngs)

This is really impossible to give advice on. Much of the nuance of cash games come from certain meta-game considerations and obv with the more tables you play the harder it would be to pick up on that sort of stuff. If you already have some experience playing multiple table then I think you'll be able to handle like 4 tables initially. Just increase the amount you play as you become more and more comfortable. But know that there will be an amount of tables you reach where you're no longer playing against specific players and instead just playing mathy poker based on HUD stats and making bot actions.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

5. Sample size of hands to get a good idea of win rate??

You can probably get a sense of whether you're a winning player or not after about 20-25k hands. But to get a sense of a more specific win rate then it's more like 100k-ish hands. I don't really know though, it seems that with poker you're never going to have a chance to say I'm sweet, I make X bb/100, like it's some sort of constant number. That figure will forever fluctuate and will be no more than a rough approximation of your true win rate.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

6. How many BB's/100 hands should you be making to feel good about moving up the stakes?

I strive to beat the lower limit NL games for 5BB/100. But really I think anywhere from 2-5BB/100 is pretty good. You'll be surprised at how many regs are losing players or likely rakeback pros. There are also many 50nl regs that are like -2BB/100 players over a huge sample of hands according to PTR lol.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

7. any helpful software i should be using in terms of hand/opponent analysis?

Hold'em Manager. This is not even an option.

 

Originally Posted by Nuggett

8. Best advice/resources for my situation in making the switch to cash?

Although I hate to direct you to another site as I <3 p5s, I suggest going over to the small stakes NL cash forum at 2+2 and reading through the master-sticky archive. You'll find a wealth of info for improving your game and just generally thinking about the game in new and better ways.

gl dude. imo cash games are much more fun and challenging than SNGs, and also much more lucrative ;)