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AK on BB facing HUGE shove from BTN in 22R

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  1. Casado Casado is offline

    Netherlands

    Posts: 99
    Joined: Mar 08

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:10am)

    ITM of 22R (35 players left), just sat down so no reads
    should i call of here with AK??
    he is pushing over 50bb, we both got top5 chipstacks
    pokerstars Game #31412273909: Tournament #183606592, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2009/08/09 0:56:38 ET
    Table '183606592 9' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: sergeyAK (108372 in chips)
    Seat 2: fasteddy113 (27478 in chips)
    Seat 3: casado85 (91296 in chips)
    Seat 4: Horst Heftig (77226 in chips)
    Seat 5: jos diouf (20042 in chips)
    Seat 6: Yayoshow (18173 in chips)
    Seat 7: munchenHB (39308 in chips)
    Seat 8: Mr.Goofy1280 (52911 in chips)
    Seat 9: ATrainBoston (19540 in chips)
    sergeyAK: posts the ante 200
    fasteddy113: posts the ante 200
    casado85: posts the ante 200
    Horst Heftig: posts the ante 200
    jos diouf: posts the ante 200
    Yayoshow: posts the ante 200
    munchenHB: posts the ante 200
    Mr.Goofy1280: posts the ante 200
    ATrainBoston: posts the ante 200
    fasteddy113: posts small blind 1000
    casado85: posts big blind 2000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to casado85 [Kh Ac]
    Horst Heftig: folds
    jos diouf: folds
    Yayoshow: folds
    munchenHB: folds
    Mr.Goofy1280: folds
    ATrainBoston: folds
    sergeyAK: raises 106172 to 108172 and is all-in
    fasteddy113: folds
    casado85: ???
     
  2. xxd33pxx xxd33pxx is offline

    Posts: 589
    Joined: Apr 06

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:13am) in reply to Casado

    snap all day
    1
  3. RoyalCrusher RoyalCrusher is offline

    Cheshire, CT
    United States

    Posts: 4,683
    Joined: Feb 06

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:18am) in reply to xxd33pxx

    snappppppp
     1
  4. LockedUpLifer LockedUpLifer is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
    United States

    Posts: 555
    Joined: Feb 09

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:22am) in reply to RoyalCrusher

    I call so fast just from reading the title.
  5. Casado Casado is offline

    Netherlands

    Posts: 99
    Joined: Mar 08

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:35am) in reply to LockedUpLifer

    ur probbly right, but i got a healty stack, what would be his range to make such a shove? i would say AK and 66+
    so should i take this coinfip, when im +45bb deep? nobody thinks its spewy and that I should wait for better spots?
     
    Thread Starter
  6. Whatshoulditbe Whatshoulditbe is offline

    Posts: 1,491
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:37am) in reply to Casado

    just given the fact that he's open shoving so many chips alone just tells us right then and there he is a bad player. looks like a spazz, i call.
     
  7. payems payems is offline

    Lexington, SC
    United States

    Posts: 343
    Joined: Oct 06

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:38am) in reply to Casado

    I fucking dare you to fold here...<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  8. xxd33pxx xxd33pxx is offline

    Posts: 589
    Joined: Apr 06

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:47am) in reply to payems

    lol@his range being AK 66+ you give people way too much credit sir.
    1
  9. DFish DFish is offline

    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    United States

    Posts: 770
    Joined: Dec 06

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 1:49am) in reply to xxd33pxx

     
    Originally Posted by xxd33pxx View Post

    lol@his range being AK 66+ you give people way too much credit sir.

    Not to mention any range with 66 in it shud prolly have a few more unpaired hands than just AK.

    High five yer dog and calllllllll.
     
  10. JR Hamilsbach JR Hamilsbach is offline

    San Francisco, CA
    United States

    Posts: 38
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 2:06am) in reply to DFish

    I had a similar situation a week or so ago in the nightly with about 100 to go. There was this guy that was playing way too many hands and we both had top 5 stacks. He open shoves UTG for what must have been somewhere between 50 and 70 bb. I called him in middle position with AKo. I figured AK was ahead of his range because I could see him doing that with any pp something like AJ/A10 or maybe even something ridiculous like nothing at all. He turns over 22 and they held up. I checked the next day and he managed to ride that stack to the final table and I was sent to the rail with double my buy-in. I know we're not suppose to be results-oriented but I was bummed I called and lost. I still think that if I was playing to win it prob was the right play against that player.
  11. Casado Casado is offline

    Netherlands

    Posts: 99
    Joined: Mar 08

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 2:10am) in reply to DFish

    Thanks for feedback!
    result:

    casado85: calls 89096 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (17076) returned to sergeyAK
    *** FLOP *** [8s Qc 4h]
    *** TURN *** [8s Qc 4h] [4d]
    *** RIVER *** [8s Qc 4h 4d] [7c]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    casado85: shows [Kh Ac] (a pair of Fours)
    sergeyAK: shows [9s 9h] (two pair, Nines and Fours)
    sergeyAK collected 184992 from pot
    I did call after giving it some thought
    Next time ill make sure I snapcall it faster than Fuck
     
    Thread Starter
  12. pockets0071 pockets0071 is offline

    Hellesdon
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 162
    Joined: Mar 08

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 7:51am) in reply to Casado

    I fold.
     
  13. Pafnutka Pafnutka is offline

    Moscow
    Russian Federation

    Posts: 120
    Joined: Apr 09

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 8:32am) in reply to Casado

    Actually, as I'm thinking about this spot, I don't see why open-shoving 99 from the button is such a horrible play. Does 99 play well post-flop? No. If he opens with a standard raise and gets 3-bet by SB or BB, should he fold 99? I don't think so. Will some bad players with hands like A9 or 55-88 stack him off? Sometimes. In the unlikely event, when there's a monster like 10-10+ sitting behind him - oh, well, he's gonna dump a ton of chips anyway. So why not open-shove there?
  14. Laois Hammer Laois Hammer is offline

    Port Laoise
    Ireland

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    Joined: May 08

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 9:03am) in reply to Pafnutka

    fold and try and get a 35 way chop of the $$$'s
     
  15. Camz Camz is offline

    Lafayette, LA
    United States

    Posts: 12,416
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    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 9:26am) in reply to Casado

    instarub peanut butter on your nuts, let the dog lick, ten snap callllllll
  16. The Spewtard The Spewtard is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 1,155
    Joined: Oct 07

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 9:39am) in reply to Pafnutka

     
    Originally Posted by Pafnutka View Post

    Actually, as I'm thinking about this spot, I don't see why open-shoving 99 from the button is such a horrible play. Does 99 play well post-flop? No. If he opens with a standard raise and gets 3-bet by SB or BB, should he fold 99? I don't think so. Will some bad players with hands like A9 or 55-88 stack him off? Sometimes. In the unlikely event, when there's a monster like 10-10+ sitting behind him - oh, well, he's gonna dump a ton of chips anyway. So why not open-shove there?

    Thats why you 4bet. Think of the value he's losing by people who 3bet/fold when he open shoves that spot everytime.
    770 2
  17. Pafnutka Pafnutka is offline

    Moscow
    Russian Federation

    Posts: 120
    Joined: Apr 09

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 11:06am) in reply to The Spewtard

     
    Originally Posted by John_Bender View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Pafnutka View Post

    Actually, as I'm thinking about this spot, I don't see why open-shoving 99 from the button is such a horrible play. Does 99 play well post-flop? No. If he opens with a standard raise and gets 3-bet by SB or BB, should he fold 99? I don't think so. Will some bad players with hands like A9 or 55-88 stack him off? Sometimes. In the unlikely event, when there's a monster like 10-10+ sitting behind him - oh, well, he's gonna dump a ton of chips anyway. So why not open-shove there?

    Thats why you 4bet. Think of the value he's losing by people who 3bet/fold when he open shoves that spot everytime.

    I can understand milking QQ+ that way, but 99 is just too vulnerable IMO. More often the standard raise gets called by some random hand, and then you get pushed off your hand on a KJ5 board, without you even knowing if you're ahead or behind.
  18. calhoun137 calhoun137 is offline

    Posts: 193
    Joined: May 08

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 12:39pm) in reply to Casado

    First of all, I think you should ask as part of your OP that all replies include whether or not the player ever folds AK for any reason ever pf. Also, before posting on this site, you should consider that ever single thread degenerates very rapidly into the following

    shove, i cant believe the idiots in this forum who dont shove here, is this a level, shove, shove, shoooove, SSSSHOOOOVEEE, ect....

    that being said, I think one spot where it is okay to fold AK pf is when there is a massive over bet, just like in this spot. However, whether or not I fold depends a lot on the dynamics of the particular situation, and calling is not a bad play, its just that folding reduces your variance by giving you 0% to be eliminated, whereas w AK, there may be a 50% of either being eliminated, but you also get that 50% chance to have a super massive stack. It's just a trade off, I have folded AK in these types of spots multiple times (as well as called) and when I fold I am often very satisfied with my desicion when another player calls and it goes to showdown and I see I would have gotten stacked.

    EDIT: against a single opponent its a lot harder to fold AK pf than when there is a lot of action from more than one opponent. From a loose player making a button shove, its really hard to fold in the BB bc it looks likely he could have AQ, and possibly even other dominated hands.
  19. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,126
    Joined: Feb 09

    Aug 9th, 2009 (8/9/2009 3:01pm) in reply to calhoun137

    it's a terrible shove, anyone who says otherwise is an idoit
     1
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