sick bluff if you folded to a shove

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

Pretty good place to bluff if you folded to a shove from the initial raiser.

Fixed. I like this line early in a tourney with this many callers and your betsizing looks ok too. I also believe folding to the initial raiser's 4-bet shove, calling anyone else's shove is a good plan here.

 

Originally Posted by s.l. halper

Fixed. I like this line early in a tourney with this many callers and your betsizing looks ok too. I also believe folding to the initial raiser's 4-bet shove, calling anyone else's shove is a good plan here.

so your saying this is a pretty good place to 3-bet atc if we are folding to opener's jam?

your inflating the pot rather large for being so deep stacked. If you get 2 callers and miss the flop what is your next move?

if you smoothe call pre u get in cheap, disquise ur hand strength and if and ace flops, AT, AJ, AQ all pay you off.

3 betting here the above is not true. AT can fold easily AJ might call 1 street and maybe AQ pays you off.

imo i like playing AK soft here. rather play a big pair strong here where it doesnt matter cuz you gonna hit all flops since you already paired up.

take into consideration that the raiser or callers most likely have at least and ace or a king in one of there hands thus lowering your chances of connecting with a flop even further.

cool checkboxes

yeah i agree if you 3 bet and fold u esentially are turning your hand into a bluff. might as well be doing this with 24off cuz its the same thing if you fold to a jam.

AK tricky when blinds super deep. like i said above just call here, i think there is alot more value in it.

Hmm. You are usually a really good poster Appst, but either I didn't articulate my thoughts well or you are just busting my stones. We are not turning AK into a bluff here. To the contrary we are making a solid play against the field by 3-betting AK here.

We should 3-bet because AK loses its value in a multi-way pot to the point where it is almost insignificant. When was the last time you won a big pot with AK with 4-way pre-flop action? 3-betting will effectively thin the herd here.

We are folding to initial raiser's 4-bet only. Initial raiser's range is the only one that should have AA and KK in it. Unless one of the flatters is either a genius or stupid they are raising up AA and KK almost 100% of the time here. Once the initial raiser 4-bets, AA and KK make up a prominent portion of his range, and we can and should fold.

We are also 3-betting to induce one of the flatters to shove. Like I said the flatters' respective ranges are unlikely to have AA or KK in it. As a result, our equity skyrockets if one of the flatters decides to shove, and we can and should call.

Finally, this is a freeroll (although a valuable one), so people are much more likely to shove in the early rounds because there is no tangible risk to busting out early. We should take advantage of it and use this play to induce action and double up if we can.

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

so your saying this is a pretty good place to 3-bet atc if we are folding to opener's jam?

It is times like this where I wish I had a good photo of a facepalm. :(

 

Originally Posted by s.l. halper

Hmm. You are usually a really good poster Appst, but either I didn't articulate my thoughts well or you are just busting my stones. We are not turning AK into a bluff here. To the contrary we are making a solid play against the field by 3-betting AK here.

We should 3-bet because AK loses its value in a multi-way pot to the point where it is almost insignificant. When was the last time you won a big pot with AK with 4-way pre-flop action? 3-betting will effectively thin the herd here.

We are folding to initial raiser's 4-bet only. Initial raiser's range is the only one that should have AA and KK in it. Unless one of the flatters is either a genius or stupid they are raising up AA and KK almost 100% of the time here. Once the initial raiser 4-bets, AA and KK make up a prominent portion of his range, and we can and should fold.

We are also 3-betting to induce one of the flatters to shove. Like I said the flatters' respective ranges are unlikely to have AA or KK in it. As a result, our equity skyrockets if one of the flatters decides to shove, and we can and should call.

Finally, this is a freeroll (although a valuable one), so people are much more likely to shove in the early rounds because there is no tangible risk to busting out early. We should take advantage of it and use this play to induce action and double up if we can.

It is times like this where I wish I had a good photo of a facepalm. :(

s.l. maybe these are spots where there is leaks in my game...i usually have a general understanding for spots like this but could be missing it here....

To OP: I know AK is overvalued sometimes but my line would be to 3-bet call in a HU spot...of course folding if OP jams and behind flatters re-iso etc.

edit: SL...sent you a pm

Thanks for responses guys here is the rest of the hand.

katiemikexxx: raises 1225 to 1525
3drawdave: folds
takesix: raises 8150 to 9675 and is all-in
ALLin2k5: folds
GLYNIS: folds
katiemikexxx: folds
Uncalled bet (8150) returned to takesix
takesix collected 3750 from pot
takesix: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3750 | Rake 0
Seat 1: misterc_uk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: takesix collected (3750)
Seat 3: Anaemik folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: FerociousBst folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ALLin2k5 folded before Flop
Seat 6: GLYNIS folded before Flop
Seat 7: benton16628 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: katiemikexxx (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: 3drawdave (big blind) folded before Flop

Like i said in op not happy about getting in 100bb this early in a fairly well structured tourny. Felt his range was jj+ ak+ but a bit part was aa/kk.