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AK late in 150k...what to do?

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  1. Crunk_Ninja Crunk_Ninja is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 32
    Joined: Oct 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 9:43am)

    *********** # 362 **************
    pokerstars Game #17440390534: Tournament #87745503, $300+$20 Hold'em No
    Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2008/05/15 - 02:25:10 (ET)
    Table '87745503 29' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: Bry23 (162339 in chips)
    Seat 2: crzysavage (51122 in chips)
    Seat 3: nilsok (36100 in chips)
    Seat 4: 2monte2 (30288 in chips)
    Seat 5: Warrior1958 (123378 in chips)
    Seat 6: Crunk_Ninja (123339 in chips)
    Seat 7: wmdbaker (109779 in chips)
    Seat 8: molswi47 (75839 in chips)
    Bry23: posts the ante 200
    crzysavage: posts the ante 200
    nilsok: posts the ante 200
    2monte2: posts the ante 200
    Warrior1958: posts the ante 200
    Crunk_Ninja: posts the ante 200
    wmdbaker: posts the ante 200
    molswi47: posts the ante 200
    Crunk_Ninja: posts small blind 1000
    wmdbaker: posts big blind 2000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Crunk_Ninja [Ac Ks]
    molswi47: folds
    Bry23: raises 3600 to 5600
    crzysavage: folds
    nilsok: raises 30300 to 35900 and is all-in
    2monte2: folds
    Warrior1958: folds
    Crunk_Ninja: ???????

    8/32 in chips at this time, bry23 had been fairly active preflop
     
  2. darkknyt darkknyt is offline

    Fenton, MO
    United States

    Posts: 952
    Joined: Sep 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 9:48am) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    If Bry has been active, I'm pushing this to isolate nilsok. Hi-five screen when nil flips over AQ, punch it when Q spikes on the flop.
  3. bluefin bluefin is offline

    Apo, AE
    United States

    Posts: 897
    Joined: Feb 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 10:31am) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    As Darkknyt said, I would defenitely shove to isolate.
  4. Stupor_Mundi Stupor_Mundi is offline

    Silver Spring, MD
    United States

    Posts: 2,409
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 11:10am) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    If he's active, this is a snap isolate shove.
  5. adam_mc adam_mc is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 1,207
    Joined: Aug 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 11:41am) in reply to Stupor_Mundi

    If he's not active, this is still a snap shove to isolate. Dead money plus the guy can show up with AQ means arrr in and race it.
  6. PocketSims PocketSims is offline

    Posts: 1,631
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 11:52am) in reply to adam_mc

    im shipping faster then britney spears losing her kids
  7. Slave Slave is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 62
    Joined: Aug 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 12:03pm) in reply to PocketSims

    Was it a stars Special ?
  8. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

    Posts: 1,178
    Joined: Sep 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 12:14pm) in reply to darkknyt

    Definitely no question. Shove to isolate nil.

    Andy, you forgot something....

    High-five screen when nil flips over AQ, punch it when Q spikes flop, high-five again when K spikes turn, then throw monitor when Q hits river.
  9. Crunk_Ninja Crunk_Ninja is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 32
    Joined: Oct 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 1:10pm) in reply to Slave

    yeah it seems everyone says this is a shove which i thought was the right play as well...just hate shoving a flipping with 60bbs and 20 min structure :(

    here's the full HH

    *********** # 362 **************
    pokerstars Game #17440390534: Tournament #87745503, $300+$20 Hold'em No
    Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2008/05/15 - 02:25:10 (ET)
    Table '87745503 29' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: Bry23 (162339 in chips)
    Seat 2: crzysavage (51122 in chips)
    Seat 3: nilsok (36100 in chips)
    Seat 4: 2monte2 (30288 in chips)
    Seat 5: Warrior1958 (123378 in chips)
    Seat 6: Crunk_Ninja (123339 in chips)
    Seat 7: wmdbaker (109779 in chips)
    Seat 8: molswi47 (75839 in chips)
    Bry23: posts the ante 200
    crzysavage: posts the ante 200
    nilsok: posts the ante 200
    2monte2: posts the ante 200
    Warrior1958: posts the ante 200
    Crunk_Ninja: posts the ante 200
    wmdbaker: posts the ante 200
    molswi47: posts the ante 200
    Crunk_Ninja: posts small blind 1000
    wmdbaker: posts big blind 2000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Crunk_Ninja [Ac Ks]
    molswi47: folds
    Bry23: raises 3600 to 5600
    crzysavage: folds
    nilsok: raises 30300 to 35900 and is all-in
    2monte2: folds
    Warrior1958: folds
    Crunk_Ninja: raises 87239 to 123139 and is all-in
    wmdbaker: folds
    Bry23: calls 117539
    *** FLOP *** [9h Jc 5h]
    *** TURN *** [9h Jc 5h] [6c]
    *** RIVER *** [9h Jc 5h 6c] [9d]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Crunk_Ninja: shows [Ac Ks] (a pair of Nines)
    Bry23: shows [Qh Qc] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
    crzysavage said, "sick"
    Bry23 collected 174478 from side pot
    nilsok: shows [Jh Jd] (a full house, Jacks full of Nines)
    nilsok collected 111300 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 285778 Main pot 111300. Side pot 174478. | Rake 0
    Board [9h Jc 5h 6c 9d]
    Seat 1: Bry23 showed [Qh Qc] and won (174478) with two pair, Queens and
    Nines
    Seat 2: crzysavage folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: nilsok showed [Jh Jd] and won (111300) with a full house, Jacks
    full of Nines
    Seat 4: 2monte2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Warrior1958 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: Crunk_Ninja (small blind) showed [Ac Ks] and lost with a pair
    of Nines
    Seat 7: wmdbaker (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 8: molswi47 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     
    Thread Starter
  10. mitks07 mitks07 is offline

    Johnston, RI
    United States

    Posts: 186
    Joined: Jan 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 1:16pm) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    I agree on the iso. results?
  11. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

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    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 1:20pm) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    I know you say Bry is active and all. But since your so deep.. Is just calling not an option? Given the structure of the tourney and all?
  12. adam_mc adam_mc is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 1,207
    Joined: Aug 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 1:44pm) in reply to mitks07

    You can flat if you intend to call the shove from original raiser, but why do this and give him the illusion of fold equity? Get this hand heads up.

    If the guy has been opening as light as he has the shover should be shipping a big range vs his open which you destroy with your hand, if you run into a big hand from original raiser, sigh, next tournament.
  13. Diggs Diggs is offline

    Nanaimo
    Canada

    Posts: 2,494
    Joined: Feb 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 1:47pm) in reply to AFink93

    He is not closing the action AFink.....flatting would be his worst option imo.
  14. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 14,381
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 2:17pm) in reply to Diggs

    I know you guys are right cause im horrible. But to get that deep in that tourney and be that deep and basically flush it all away on a coin flip sucks. If you flat and lose your still sitting on a 45BB stack.. What is wrong with that? What range would give the original raiser to shove over you after a raise and a shove and a flat.. QQ+ correct?
  15. Crunk_Ninja Crunk_Ninja is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 32
    Joined: Oct 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 2:19pm) in reply to adam_mc

    yeah the only reason i questioned it so much afterwards is because we are so deep, i have 60bb, 8th/32, and 20 minute structure....does anyone out there find an argument for folding here given positions and the action and the original raiser has us covered?

    my initial intinct was actually to fold because i hate these spots with AK and have been there before and had same results...obv if i win the flip im cruising to the final table.
     
    Thread Starter
  16. FenwayKing FenwayKing is offline The Well: FenwayKing

    Posts: 12,062
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 2:27pm) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    flattng is horrible as the others have said but I'm really interested to hear more opinions because I've run into situations similar to this (without the 20 mn structure) and I always shove, but I seem to be flipping for a ton of chips and I'm not sure if this is optimal
    247 1
  17. adam_mc adam_mc is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 1,207
    Joined: Aug 06

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 2:33pm) in reply to Crunk_Ninja

    I don't find a fold because of how badly you have ranges beat no matter what the structure is to be honest.

    Having a monstrous stack after winning this flip puts you at such an advantage to take advantage of people as pay jumps start getting bigger and people get nittier.

    And we don't even know we are flipping, we are playing results.

    Arr in.
  18. Diggs Diggs is offline

    Nanaimo
    Canada

    Posts: 2,494
    Joined: Feb 07

    May 15th, 2008 (5/15/2008 3:05pm) in reply to AFink93

    Here's my two cents fwiw AFink.

    If you flat what are you hoping Bry23 does? If he flats (which I think is unlikely) and you miss the flop are you going to check/fold? A lot of AK's value is from both fold equity and the ability to see all 5 cards. So imo, if you're going to play the hand you have to iso ship since you have FE and you know you'll get to see all 5 cards. Flatting for nearly a quarter of your stack and folding to a shove preflop would be terrible.

    Plus, imo, you can't be afraid to take flips for huge stacks in tourneys...if you win the flip you'll have 140+ Big Blinds, possibly the chip leader and be well on your way for a deep run.

    Iso Ship > Fold > Flat immfo.
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