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AK spot Im curious about ReEdit: w/ more lines

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  1. gamblingfun gamblingfun is offline

    Johnson City, TN
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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 1:27pm)

    obv trny just getting started no reads...

    Full Tilt Poker Game #20807513742: MiniFTOPS Event #19 (1r+1a) (147680378), Table 41 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:24:23 ET - 2010/05/13
    Seat 1: rambrazil (4,225)
    Seat 2: REMSKI55 (1,895)
    Seat 3: boremb (3,850)
    Seat 4: primosi (1,890), is sitting out
    Seat 5: SwineFlu2 (2,270)
    Seat 6: door2 (3,835)
    Seat 7: absolo (1,850)
    Seat 8: gamblingfun (7,955)
    Seat 9: flymoney78 (3,467)
    gamblingfun posts the small blind of 20
    flymoney78 posts the big blind of 40
    The button is in seat #7
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]
    rambrazil raises to 95
    REMSKI55 folds
    boremb calls 95
    primosi folds
    SwineFlu2 folds
    door2 folds
    absolo raises to 400
    gamblingfun ???
  2. Ace10Suted Ace10Suted is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 1:38pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    No reads and with AKs and 8K, I call to see that flop for sure. The gauging where you're at after the flop is the more interesting part. But I'm definitely seeing a flop. I don't see any reason at this point why you should be sticking a 4 bet in....although I did just notice it's 1 re 1 add. With that, I could see a 4 bet, but ram UTG with 4K is a little scary. I assume the starting stacks in this are 4K and you already doubled up? Or does it let you do the rebuy immediately? Sorry, I don't play multis on Tilt. My final answer is probably a flat pre here though. Even if ram goes nuts and shoves, you can fold only investing 400 into that pot out of 8K.
  3. agilles agilles is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 1:39pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    I shove. I think at worst this is a coin flip vs JJ-QQ .
  4. gamblingfun gamblingfun is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 1:41pm) in reply to agilles

    Its 1r+1a trny w/ 2k starting/rebuy.. I rebuy to start and have doubled. Its a basically a std trny for me now
    Thread Starter
  5. agilles agilles is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 1:45pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    Ya, my bad... I didn't look at your stack size. However, with his stack sizing I'm more inclined to push. He's committing himself with the raise and he could be iso'ing with a very mediocre hand.

    Obv you ran into an idiot raising with AA/KK, but thats bad luck imo
  6. Ace10Suted Ace10Suted is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 1:56pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    Alright, if you already rebought, and doubled up, i just flat pre, mainly because of UTG 4K sitting over there. But I certainly don't see ANY reason you should be folding to that 400.
  7. gamblingfun gamblingfun is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 2:01pm) in reply to Ace10Suted

    ok lets play it out.. to the flop w/ a call

    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]
    rambrazil raises to 95
    REMSKI55 folds
    boremb calls 95
    primosi folds
    SwineFlu2 folds
    door2 folds
    absolo raises to 400
    gamblingfun has 15 seconds left to act
    gamblingfun calls 400
    flymoney78 folds
    rambrazil folds
    boremb calls 305
    *** FLOP *** [4d 6d Qh]
    gamblingfun???
    Thread Starter
  8. Ace10Suted Ace10Suted is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 2:09pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    LOL...these are the fun spots. 2 options here.....the pot is the size of what Absolo has left. I assume he hasn't rebought, so if he has any pair he probably calls/shoves any bet you put out there just hoping you don't have a Q or bigger pair. It's unlikely boremb calls any bet you put out unless he flat/flatted with something like KQ or QJ, which would be gay. I suppose this early AQ as well. But that's all he's probably real happy with to get in a sizeable pot with you. Or 66 or 44 obv. If he has a couple diamonds, that would be gay too...but you can't assume that. So if you check absolo is shoving no matter what he's holding. So you can either bet and let him decide, or check/fold, or check/call if you want to really gamble. I lean toward throwing 800-900 out there and calling absolos shove. If boremb calls, you should probably be giving up on the turn unless you turn an A or K, and then it gets even trickier.
  9. Getumboy Getumboy is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 2:22pm) in reply to Ace10Suted

    Should have 4bet to an amount that isolates the short stack and commits him if he plays. Maybe 4 bet to 999-1299 which should effectively drive the other stacks out the pot unless they have a monster to play back at you with at which point you would reevaluate.
  10. Goal4Ziggy Goal4Ziggy is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 2:33pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    flatting AK here really doesn't accomplish much. AK has way more value preflop than postflop. I'm more than happy to get it in with the 3bettor here. You lose all value by flatting because if he has like JJ+ he shuts down on flops with A's or K's and you can't continue on many flops that you don't hit a pair.
  11. agilles agilles is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 3:09pm) in reply to gamblingfun

     
    Originally Posted by gamblingfun View Post

    ok lets play it out.. to the flop w/ a call

    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]
    rambrazil raises to 95
    REMSKI55 folds
    boremb calls 95
    primosi folds
    SwineFlu2 folds
    door2 folds
    absolo raises to 400
    gamblingfun has 15 seconds left to act
    gamblingfun calls 400
    flymoney78 folds
    rambrazil folds
    boremb calls 305
    *** FLOP *** [4d 6d Qh]
    gamblingfun???

    I just don't understand the call...

    Orig. Raiser is committed at this point. Give up or start betting with intent to call orig raiser.... Personally I hate your call and would give up. You OBV had no plan after your call, which is your main probelm.
  12. el arracachero el arracachero is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 3:28pm) in reply to agilles

    Hero raises to 1095 pf and calls 3bet guy shoves, and folds if early raiser 5bets....
  13. gamblingfun gamblingfun is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 3:32pm) in reply to agilles

    Yeah I agree, I hate the calling also (and never said I did :D) more options:

    Line B
    ?*** HOLE CARDS ***
    ?Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]?
    rambrazil raises to 95?
    REMSKI55 folds
    ?boremb calls 95
    ?primosi folds?
    SwineFlu2 folds
    ?door2 folds?
    absolo raises to 400
    ?gamblingfun has 15 seconds left to act?
    gamblingfun raises 799 to 1199?
    flymoney78 folds
    ?rambrazil folds?
    boremb calls 1104
    absolo calls 799?
    *** FLOP *** [4d 6d Qh]
    ?gamblingfun???

    Line C?
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    ?Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]
    ?rambrazil raises to 95?
    REMSKI55 folds?
    boremb calls 95
    ?primosi folds?
    SwineFlu2 folds?
    door2 folds?
    absolo raises to 400
    ?gamblingfun has 15 seconds left to ac
    t?gamblingfun raises 799 to 1199
    ?flymoney78 folds
    ?rambrazil raises 3,206 to 4225 and is all-in
    ?boremb folds
    absolo calls 1450 and is all-in
    gamblingfun???

    whats next?
    Thread Starter
  14. Ace10Suted Ace10Suted is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 3:40pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    And that's exactly why I don't like the 4 bet here. Instead of finding out what ram was going to do for 400, you found out for 1200. Now you're either one of those people that will stick it in with AK or fold and wait for another spot so early. I don't like playing AK that big so early as raise ranges are much tighter, but hey, what do i know? Maybe that's why I min-cash all the time. Maybe I turn into an early AK shoves-a-lot and try to get lucky with a stack.

    I think QQ is the absolute WORST hand you're up against here. I don't even think he ships QQ here. It's either AA, KK, or AK. I'm not a fan of it personally, but again, I lose with KK vs. AK all the time, so you could be that guy.
    *spelling Edit
  15. trist23 trist23 is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 6:17pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    Just flat with AK....if you're a good player I don't think you should be looking for massive pot flips at 20-40 when you don't have a made hand...I've learned through experience that when you overship with AK nobody folds TT+ and you wind up usually losing most of your stack early in the tourney
     
  16. el arracachero el arracachero is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 7:06pm) in reply to gamblingfun

     
    Originally Posted by gamblingfun View Post

    Yeah I agree, I hate the calling also (and never said I did :D) more options:

    Line B
    ?*** HOLE CARDS ***
    ?Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]?
    rambrazil raises to 95?
    REMSKI55 folds
    ?boremb calls 95
    ?primosi folds?
    SwineFlu2 folds
    ?door2 folds?
    absolo raises to 400
    ?gamblingfun has 15 seconds left to act?
    gamblingfun raises 799 to 1199?
    flymoney78 folds
    ?rambrazil folds?
    boremb calls 1104
    absolo calls 799?
    *** FLOP *** [4d 6d Qh]
    ?gamblingfun???

    Line C?
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    ?Dealt to gamblingfun [Ks As]
    ?rambrazil raises to 95?
    REMSKI55 folds?
    boremb calls 95
    ?primosi folds?
    SwineFlu2 folds?
    door2 folds?
    absolo raises to 400
    ?gamblingfun has 15 seconds left to ac
    t?gamblingfun raises 799 to 1199
    ?flymoney78 folds
    ?rambrazil raises 3,206 to 4225 and is all-in
    ?boremb folds
    absolo calls 1450 and is all-in
    gamblingfun???

    whats next?

    Line B. check fold

    Line C. fold
  17. el arracachero el arracachero is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 7:10pm) in reply to trist23

     
    Originally Posted by trist23 View Post

    Just flat with AK....if you're a good player I don't think you should be looking for massive pot flips at 20-40 when you don't have a made hand...I've learned through experience that when you overship with AK nobody folds TT+ and you wind up usually losing most of your stack early in the tourney

    Please refer to goal4ziggys post.
  18. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 7:15pm) in reply to gamblingfun

    surprised nobody is advocating just folding preflop here. The squeezer is not going to be raise/folding preflop and will only fold flops when we make our hand and you'll be dead some % of the time as well to AA/KK, so it seems like a really bad implied odds spot.
  19. el arracachero el arracachero is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 7:16pm) in reply to Ace10Suted

     
    Originally Posted by Ace10Suted View Post

    And that's exactly why I don't like the 4 bet here. Instead of finding out what ram was going to do for 400, you found out for 1200.

    I dont agree with you...ram is not going to do the same action all the time independant of our actions....sure he is getting in with AA, KK no matter what we do, but he might ship TT, JJ, AK if we flat, but if we 4bet we might make him fold those hands....

    If you dont like 4betting, just fold because I see flatting AK and seeing a flop oop against two players not good.

    I personally think 4betting is a good choice because we can isolate and play perfect poker if ram comes over the top. If you only flat, whereas ram shoves or calls, you are in a guessing spot.
  20. gamblingfun gamblingfun is offline

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    May 13th, 2010 (5/13/2010 9:05pm) in reply to el arracachero

    I ended up just folding...

    I think its super nitty, but a call would make almost any flop a guess. If I do hit the hands I was racing against probably shut down. I hated to 4 bet because I would have to commit myself out of position with ak at 20/40 blinds I didn't see a reason to stick a lot of chips in.

    So I was between calling/folding and both of those made my stomach hurt. Its probably terrible but I just folded.
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