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AK vs 2 raises on an M of 4.4

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  1. Hitman Hitman is offline

    Joliet, IL
    United States

    Posts: 844
    Joined: May 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:37pm)

    Can you or should you fold here, or is this a gamble you've got to take?

    <span>About 50 players remain. </span><span><span>Don't really have reads on the players involved in the hand since they are pretty new to the table. Been here a couple of orbits. But it's a 15+1.50 and well the play isn't all that great. Okay here's the hand. <span> </span>What do you do and why? </span></span>

    <span>
    <span>$15.00+$1.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2008/08/14 - 00:36:07 (ET) </span>
    <span>Table '100868012 44' 9-max Seat #2 is the button </span>
    <span>Seat 1: HERO (5970 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 2: glory35 (19960 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 3: Ace10Suted (8213 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 4: Inigknokt (4393 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 5: stopnot13 (8557 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 6: Flick1320 (4137 in chips) is sitting out </span>
    <span>Seat 7: H0T_Love (27393 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 8: TROCK2121 (18392 in chips) </span>
    <span>Seat 9: larimar22 (28186 in chips) </span>
    <span>HERO: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>glory35: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>Ace10Suted: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>Inigknokt: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>stopnot13: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>Flick1320: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>H0T_Love: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>TROCK2121: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>larimar22: posts the ante 50 </span>
    <span>Ace10Suted: posts small blind 300 </span>
    <span>Inigknokt: posts big blind 600 </span>
    <span>*** HOLE CARDS *** </span>
    <span>Dealt to HERO [Ac Kd] </span>
    <span>stopnot13: raises 1200 to 1800 </span>
    <span>Flick1320: folds </span>
    <span>H0T_Love: raises 3600 to 5400 </span>
    <span>TROCK2121: folds </span>
    <span>larimar22: folds </span>
    <span>HERO:?????????</span></span>
  2. Vesper Vesper is offline

    Edmonton
    Canada

    Posts: 1,235
    Joined: Dec 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:38pm) in reply to Hitman

    ship it, high five.
  3. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,988
    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:38pm) in reply to Hitman

    dont fold.
     21
  4. tcstunna tcstunna is offline

    Posts: 1,822
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    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:42pm) in reply to rock3656

    1) what do i do: ship. not even a question.

    2) why: because u have AK with an M of 4.4
    1
  5. hoorayforjaded hoorayforjaded is offline

    Blowing Rock, NC
    United States

    Posts: 690
    Joined: Aug 05

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:44pm) in reply to Hitman

    idk... i don't really like AK in a three way pot like this. i'd rather open shove any two from the button than call with AK in this situation with this stack. I don't think a fold is all that bad.
  6. Juanda 87 Juanda 87 is offline

    Calgary
    Canada

    Posts: 1,555
    Joined: Aug 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:45pm) in reply to tcstunna

    I would have to call, not the ideal action infront obv, but this fold would be gayer than aids.
  7. kidrockin kidrockin is offline cro magnon

    Yeniky
    Turkey

    Posts: 7,540
    Joined: Oct 05

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:46pm) in reply to hoorayforjaded

    shove all day
     
  8. korey729 korey729 is offline

    Edwardsville, IL
    United States

    Posts: 3,766
    Joined: Oct 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:50pm) in reply to Hitman

    insta check the "call/raise any" button and go make a sammich. come back to see that you got 3 outted by AQo. proceed to enjoy the sammy (assuming you like a mustard/mayo combo and put chips on your sammys)
  9. Juanda 87 Juanda 87 is offline

    Calgary
    Canada

    Posts: 1,555
    Joined: Aug 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:53pm) in reply to korey729

    korey, you're right the ideal line involves a fuckin' sandi for sure. I am soooo hungry, peace P5's time to mow!
  10. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 14,381
    Joined: Mar 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 9:59pm) in reply to Hitman

    If you didnt shove. Just quit playing poker now..
  11. Hitman Hitman is offline

    Joliet, IL
    United States

    Posts: 844
    Joined: May 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 11:24pm) in reply to AFink93

     
    Originally Posted by AFink93 View Post

    If you didnt shove. Just quit playing poker now..

    Thanks, it wasn't me it was a friend of mine (she did shove). I was explaining why I thought it was a shove and got into a debate with this:

     

    <span> Insta-fold. When I am less than 10 times BB I am looking for situations to push. This is not one of them. You have a raise and a re-raise in front of you. I would much rather be the opening raiser and push all-in with Ax or two face cards or even suited connectors than call in this situation. You dont have enough chips except to contribute to pot odds for the other players. You have no pressure at all. Poker is about causing pressure and causing your opponents to make tough decisions. You can do neither in this situation.

    If you had your cards covered what would you do? I play situations here, not cards. Card dependency is a hard habit to break, just about as hard as odds dependency.

    Open-shoving Ax on an M of 4.4 is horrible because a callers range will crush you, but that aside I was trying to discuss ranges for our villains and how our hand will play vs. those ranges, and the tEV of more than tripling up here which will situate us well for a final table run, and sadly it just degenerated into I'm a bingo player who just sees a chance to hit the lottery and sticks the money in. Of course this person also said:

     

    </span><span> With just under 10 times BB you still have time. Getting married to big hands such as AK when the situation screams laying it down is card dependency. Considering tripling up when you are in this situation is odds dependent.

    I feel the action only screams lay it down if the raisers are complete nits... for instance if you put them on QQ+ or AK here (which is insanely tight for this situation, from either of them IMHO, without reads you can't go even close to that tight, right?).

    So I threw this out here for more feedback, thoughts from top players, etc.?

    I agree BTW that this isn't the kind of action I want to see in front, but with our stack where it is I think the best chance to maximize our tEV is to get the money in here.

    No?

    </span>
    Thread Starter
  12. warden warden is offline

    Tucson, AZ
    United States

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    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 11:27pm) in reply to Hitman

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    <span>
    Open-shoving Ax on an M of 4.4 is horrible because a callers range will crush you</span>

    whoa nelly
     2
  13. 4BETUONTURN 4BETUONTURN is offline

    Boca Raton, FL
    United States

    Posts: 365
    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 14th, 2008 (8/14/2008 11:32pm) in reply to Hitman

    lol @ folding AK with an M of 4.4 and 10 bbs you have to hope the guy who 3 bet had like AQ or QQ or lower where at least its a race and the guy who raised folds
  14. Hitman Hitman is offline

    Joliet, IL
    United States

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    Joined: May 06

    Aug 15th, 2008 (8/15/2008 12:17am) in reply to warden

     
    Originally Posted by dpottz View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    <span>
    Open-shoving Ax on an M of 4.4 is horrible because a callers range will crush you</span>

    whoa nelly

    No? On this stack I'd rather open shove 89s than A2, at least it will play better against a callers range which is generally going to be pairs and big aces... If we were shorter such that we had no fold equity, I'd rather have the naked ace since their calling range will be nearly any 2. Not good?
    Thread Starter
  15. korey729 korey729 is offline

    Edwardsville, IL
    United States

    Posts: 3,766
    Joined: Oct 06

    Aug 15th, 2008 (8/15/2008 12:27am) in reply to Hitman

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

     
    Originally Posted by dpottz View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    <span>
    Open-shoving Ax on an M of 4.4 is horrible because a callers range will crush you</span>

    whoa nelly

    No? On this stack I'd rather open shove 89s than A2, at least it will play better against a callers range which is generally going to be pairs and big aces... If we were shorter such that we had no fold equity, I'd rather have the naked ace since their calling range will be nearly any 2. Not good?

    yeah... lucky for you, you didn't have A2, you had AK. its a shove everytime no matter how you look at it
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